What are you spraying on the chickweed and creeping charlie ? You should have killed that already.

Do you have pictures?

 

What are you spraying on the chickweed and creeping charlie ? You should have killed that already.

Do you have pictures?

In the past, it just keeps coming up until right around now, then when I spray it I can get it all at once. I'm spraying Thursday, just before a rainy spell this weekend.

Pictures... sure, I'll bet everyone here can use a good laugh. I'll take a couple!

 

A regular Prodiamine program (in spring for Crabgrass) to prevent germination, and then Weed B Gon Crabgrass if any pops up. Works great for me. I usually only have a couple stray plants that pop up.

 

Prodiamine? OK, I'm off to google... and it's OK to reseed at the same time?

Edit: yeah. just checked. Can't use that and reseed this spring, and the lawn has to be reseeded. There's nothing left but weeds. Crabgrass last year crowded out everything else, it's pure crabgrass now.

 

Crabgrass is a summer annual weed. It dies in the fall when frost occurs. Crabgrass germinates in the spring when soil temperatures reach 55 degrees.

If you have mature crabgrass in your lawn over winter and again this spring then it is not crabgrass. It's probably something else.

Pre emergent in the spring, fall renovation.

Also welcome to TLF! Check out some of the stickies. Especially the cool season lawn guide.

 

If you have mature crabgrass in your lawn over winter and again this spring then it is not crabgrass. It's probably something else.

Not. It hasn't emerged yet. That's just it, I'm trying to find out if I should use a pre-emerge, because I know it will emerge after I seed the law,

 

If i were you i would spray Triclopyr + 3 way right now to Kill all weeds. Spring seeding in Kentucky is probably a no-go. Spray crabgrass with quinclorac in the summer. Seed in the Late Summer.

 

I have to seed this spring, or it will be weeds all summer. There's no grass left after last year. Even if it's a shitty lawn all summer and I have to reseed again in October, I have to at least grow something.

I'll get the triclopyr today, but do I need the 3 way for the broadleaf weeds too? Do they do different things?

 

Seeing as you've already had one semi-successful try at spring seeding, I see no reason you can't try it again. It's usually pretty hard to get good luck with it, but feel free to try.
As others have said, use mesotrione(Tenacity) as a pre-em when seeding. Use it again a month after germination. A month after emergence is also the time it's ok to use quinclorac on any cool-season grass. So, I'd do this and hit any crabgrass that pops up with quinclorac. I didn't have much success with the Weed-b -gon for crabgrass. Its concentration didn't seem to be enough. Bought some quinclorac 1.5 and it just smoked my crabgrass.
I'd avoid any prodiamine or dithiopyr, even after the mesotrione wears off, because now you're getting closer to the fall and you're going to want the option to seed then. Especially, if your spring seeding doesn't go as well as hoped, which happens a LOT with spring seeding.

 

Seeing as you've already had one semi-successful try at spring seeding

I do not think he had any success with the spring seeding. if he did then he would not be where is now.

 

Crossbow will work. The 2,4-D is what is often referred to as a three way. It will handle the broadleaf (dandelions, clover, etc) weeds. Blanket spray it and you will see results within a few days.

 

I would not bother trying to fix the lawn this spring/summer. Plan for a fall renovation and let the weeds have the lawn this year. You will have better results with a fall renovation, and it will give you time to prep the lawn for the fall. Grass germinated in the fall has all winter and spring to establish roots before summer heat. You can also apply a spring pre-emergent next year and significantly reduce the crabgrass pressure.

If you feel that you need to seed this spring because of bare soil, too many weeds, etc., you can, but I would recommend planning a fall heavy overseed and possible renovation. Think of the spring renovation as practice for the fall and a chance to develop a good lawn care program this summer. A spring seeding cannot be done if you apply Prodiamine or Dimension as a pre-emergent. Tenacity, however, is a pre and post emergent herbicide that will reduce crabgrass a lot and it can be used during seeding. I would recommend using it for a spring seeding. Apply at the time of seeding and again 4 weeks later. The spring seeding here is really just a way to get something green this summer with the expectation that the real work will be done this fall. If you spray a post-emergent to kill current weeds it can also affect new seed germination and you may have to wait 30 days or more after spraying before you can overseed.

Most importantly, you need to have good watering, fertilizing, and mowing practices. If you have not, you should read the cool season lawn guide stickied at the top of the forum. Cool Season Lawn Guide | Lawn Care Forum (thelawnforum.com).

My final suggestion would be to consider a soil test. It isn't necessary, but you have now had what sounds like several failed renovations and spent a lot of money without great results. Spending the 20-30 dollars and some time for the test will let you know if there is a problem with the pH, Phos, Potassium, etc. More info on soil testing can be found at the top of the soil forum: Popular Soil Fertility and Soil Testing Threads | Lawn Care Forum (thelawnforum.com)

PS: We like pictures. If you can post some, you will get better advice.

 

My final suggestion would be to consider a soil test. It isn't necessary, but you have now had what sounds like several failed renovations and spent a lot of money without great results. Spending the 20-30 dollars and some time for the test will let you know if there is a problem with the pH, Phos, Potassium, etc. More info on soil testing can be found at the top of the soil forum: Popular Soil Fertility and Soil Testing Threads | Lawn Care Forum (thelawnforum.com)

Yes, that definitely has to be done. There've just ben way too many things going wrong with this lawn way too easily. I was told by a neighbor that about 20 years back, someone living here had a giant fish pond of some sort taking up the whole front yard for a few years, and then finally tore it out. They said nobody has been able to grow a decent lawn there ever since, and it's time to find out why.

 

I think your newly seeded grass is dying in the heat of summer. But i am not from your area, so i do not know how hot it gets. I live in a cooler area of PA and new grass has a hard time making it through summer.

 

Are you certain you're battling crabgrass? I've never found it to be that invasive; but I'm new to all this.

 

Semi on topic - has anyone mixed Killex (2,4 d, dicamba, mesoprop) + tenacity?

 

Triclopyr is the key for charlie.

 

Not sure what you decided to do, but I personally would put the pre emergent down now and then late spring and not worry about seeding until the fall. The yard will be full of weeds over the summer but those should be easily defeated. Nuke the yard at least a month before seeding if needed. I feel like it’s a waste of time and money to seed in the spring and fight the crabgrass all summer just to have a half decent yard. Once you get that lawn established in the fall, next spring you’re gonna be doing two apps of pre emergent again to prevent the crabgrass. That’s the plan LCN always teaches and worked for me.

 

One of the main reasons you're seeing crabgrass take over year in, year out is your spring over seeding turf likely isn't mature enough to survive in the summer heat. Hence crabgrass is just taking over those spots where the desired turf can't compete. The other is of course the lack of pre-emergent.

In order to break the cycle you're probably going to just have to come to terms with skipping the spring over seeding (which is generally not recommended for cool season lawns in areas with hot summers) and putting all your focus into late summer/early fall over seeding. Then apply the winter/spring pre-emergent to put paid to the stuff that pops up between over seeding and early summer.

So I'd advise just getting a healthy dose of prodiamine/dithiopyr down now, spot spraying anything that makes it through and then putting all your energy into having a successful fall over seeding. That does mean an ugly lawn for the next few months, but you gotta break this cycle otherwise you'll be repeating it in perpetuity.

 

I don't understand why he can't seed in both spring and fall where the fall overseeding is most important to ensure this doesn't repeat in perpetuity?

 

Use tenacity at a low rate (5oz/k/gal) as pre emergent and post emergent all-in-1. Seed at the same time. Wait 1 month for germination. During this time hand pull weeds that do not turn white as you see them. Leave bleached white weeds alone unless they start to turn green again. After new grass is old enough to be cut a few times and it is over 30 days later since germination, do a 2nd round of tenacity (low rate). For anything left after 21 days after or at the end of spring/early summer, use Q4 Plus, Roundup for lawns 3, OR spectricide weed killer for crabgrass with 2 applications 2-3 weeks apart. Any of these post emergents all have similar ingredients and will handle probably 95% of all common weeds. Ensure plenty of water 2 days before and after to keep your desirable grass thriving.
If you have a grassy weed problem, try ornamec 170, but keep in mind this may harm KBG.
In the fall, over-seed again with an application tenacity (low rate). After the over-seeded grass is mature enough to be cut a few times, put down dithiopyr afterwards. Next year when soil temps return to 45+ degrees, put down prodiamine. If you miss some areas or miss the temperature window, you can add dithiopyr 6-8 weeks later (ideally liquid formula), as a pre emergent and post emergent of crabgrass.

If the lawn fills out and is maintained with mowing, proper pH, and nutrients, most weeds should be gone going forward. Spot pull or spot-spray treat the last few weeds that get lucky to germinate.

 

You can seed in the spring with success but you should be prepared for the added work and costs. I have been successful in spring seeding but only with root growth stimulants, adequate nutrients (P and K), and non-optimal watering. I had sprinklers going every hour or two for a few minutes to keep the grass and ground cooler to survive the summer heat. Yes this encourages shallow roots but this is just during heat. Additionally the height of cut was much higher - like 4inches. When fall/cooler temps are there, the water is backed off and established grass can be taught to go deeper for water with proper watering techniques.

if you have the resources, it can be done, but you will still be over-seeding in the fall to get the best results.

 

You know you can just pick it up with your hands instead of nuking your lawn all the time.
In Canada we don't have pre-emergent or decent herbicide so this is pretty much our only choice.

I had a pretty bad situation with crabgrass and creeping charlie in my back lawn a few years ago.
I spent a couple of hours for each day for a long weekend picking up in a big section then I just subsequently picked up anything I saw as I was mowing.
Each year I have less and less.

Put in a bit of effort and it will go away.

 

Took me a bit but Im pretty much weed free after a few seasons

 

Are you I_Hate_Crabgrass and changed your username or what? And what do you mean by "Took me a bit but Im pretty much weed free after a few seasons"?