So on YouTube especially, I always see people seeding with PRG or KBG. My question to all of you is, why would I plant TTTF instead of the others? Would love to hear the pros and cons and opinions of TLF community.
It may largely depends on the TF and *** cultivars as well. I assume you are irrigated?j4c11 said:Though everyone repeats the mantra of more heat and drought tolerance with fescue, having grown both in high temperature and humidity conditions, I tend to dispute that claim.
I've never seen bluegrass die or go dormant purely due to heat, including during stretches of weeks above 90 with multiple days near or over 100 degrees. Granted, if you push far enough south and reach the extremes, there may be a difference at the top end, but you probably have no business growing bluegrass, nor fescue in those conditions.
As far as drought tolerance, bluegrass takes about the same amount of water as fescue to keep alive. If you don't irrigate, bluegrass has far superior recovery from dormancy vs fescue, which simply dies. So as far as tolerating drought, I think bluegrass has a clear edge. If you throw in brown patch, you're more likely to end up with a nice bluegrass lawn at the end of summer than a nice fescue lawn.
I think with minimal care, and proper selection of variety/mix, bluegrass is a superior option for the Transition zone vs fescue. I find that because it's able to spread and I don't have to seed yearly, I use far less water overall with bluegrass. I also use far less fungicide, and stress less about damage to the lawn, because I know it will fill in. Switching from fescue to bluegrass has been a blessing.
Sure, that's why I said with proper mix selection. That's probably where fescue has the edge, you're far more like to succeed with any random fescue than with any random bluegrass. So, from that standpoint, maybe it's fair that most places recommend fescue, since the average homeowner will not be analyzing NTEP data.VALawnNoob said:It may largely depends on the TF and *** cultivars as well. I assume you are irrigated?
I had a salad bowl inherited from previous owner. Each summer, a little bit more of the old PRG and *** die. What is left is thick blade Fescue (likely K31) and bare spots. I am now overseeding with top NTEP TTTF cultivars. I am very happy with the results thus far. I know it will take a couple of years for the lawn to transition towards the newer seedlings but so far so good :thumbup:
Same for me. KBG just takes mowing, watering and fertilizing where as the TTTF always needs severe repair overseeding in the fall and fungicide applications during the summer. I have in ground irrigation, though.j4c11 said:Though everyone repeats the mantra of more heat and drought tolerance with fescue, having grown both in high temperature and humidity conditions, I tend to dispute that claim.
I've never seen bluegrass die or go dormant purely due to heat, including during stretches of weeks above 90 with multiple days near or over 100 degrees. Granted, if you push far enough south and reach the extremes, there may be a difference at the top end, but you probably have no business growing bluegrass, nor fescue in those conditions.
As far as drought tolerance, bluegrass takes about the same amount of water as fescue to keep alive. If you don't irrigate, bluegrass has far superior recovery from dormancy vs fescue, which simply dies. So as far as tolerating drought, I think bluegrass has a clear edge. If you throw in brown patch, you're more likely to end up with a nice bluegrass lawn at the end of summer than a nice fescue lawn.
I think with minimal care, and proper selection of variety/mix, bluegrass is a superior option for the Transition zone vs fescue. I find that because it's able to spread and I don't have to seed yearly, I use far less water overall with bluegrass. I also use far less fungicide, and stress less about damage to the lawn, because I know it will fill in. Switching from fescue to bluegrass has been a blessing.
I don't believe the whole tall fescue dies when it goes dormant. I can't speak for Kentucky Bluegrass because I've never grown it. I live in the transition zone in mid Missouri where most people have fescue and every summer I see a lot of lawns going dormant and a lot of those coming out of dormancy.j4c11 said:If you don't irrigate, bluegrass has far superior recovery from dormancy vs fescue, which simply dies. So as far as tolerating drought, I think bluegrass has a clear edge. If you throw in brown patch, you're more likely to end up with a nice bluegrass lawn at the end of summer than a nice fescue lawn.
For this reason alone I may already be convinced :lol:jacobpd said:1) if your soil is heavy with clay or stones, TTTF's root can not grow deep, so no advantage from TTTF.
I thought TTTF was general considered to be more drought tolerant? I'm not fully up on TTTF, but regarding your point #3, I thought rhizomes helped KBG spread, I'm not sure how they would help with drought resistance as they are horizontal not vertical? As far as point #4, I thought deep watering helped with all grasses?, #5, if you irrigating frequently, it's only KBG that that stays green in the summer? I thought TTTF would do the same? #6, I don't get this, if for *** to "fight" Poa trivialis involves using roundup to kill it, how is that different than TTTF?jacobpd said:KBG is much much better. Here are my reasons based on my experience:
1) if your soil is heavy with clay or stones, TTTF's root can not grow deep, so no advantage from TTTF.
2) KBG can spread, TTTF not. You do not have to overseed every year.
3) KBG has rhizomes which helps them survive long and dry summer much better than TTTF, especially when your soil can not let TTTF grow 2 feet long root. If the new TTTF's roots are not not long enough, they will die in the summer if not helped by irrigation.
4) you do not have to water hours and hours to promote deeper root, KBG does not need long root to survive the summer.
5) in the summer, if you irrigate frequently, KBG can become green very fast from dormancy, if you want to keep a green look.
6) KBG can fight with Poa T. All you need to do is to roundup Poa.T, in the spring or summer. After a season, KBG will take over. For tttf, you have to make sure newly seeded TTTF can establish and live through summer otherwise Poa T will grow back. You can not get rid of Poa T once infected. The only way is to suppress them by introduce constant competition.
The only problem of KBG is in the shade area. But TTTF is just ok not excellent in shade area either.
Plus, KBG has better cold resistance than TTTF.
To me, KBG is a worry free grass even in transition zone.
All you need to do is to provide fertilizer(buy some cheap urea) and water. They will take care of themselves very well.
I know you are trying to be general but there are dwarf type TTTFs like Siesta that can handle mowing as low as 1/2".OnTheLawn said:You also have to keep your end goal in mind. If you want to mow low, you'll need to go with KBG or PRG or a blend of both. But if you do that you'll need to be prepared to irrigate and practice proper cultural practices to make it happen. If you want low maintenance and a taller HOC? TTTF is probably the better choice for VA, but you'll need a good rotation of fungicides to help against brown patch, which TTTF is more prone to than other grass types.