Interesting thread. Sure seems to be a lot of new members lately.

I get my fertilizer from a company called ‘Cyberdyne’. Have you heard of them?

 

Interesting thread. Sure seems to be a lot of new members lately.

Just like in April.

 

So are you happy with organics or not?
The cost can turn people off.
The slower reaction can turn people off.
I have been cutting back on fert.
2 feedings from april 1st then may 18th I only put down 1.5lbs N with slow release. Come sept another 1lb then

 

What I noticed with my ongoing experience with organic fertilizer it takes a few years to really show the results.

 

It interesting how the lawn changes, isn't it? Soil health now predominates even conventional ag thinking, yet most internet lawn advice is from NPK guys like it is 1980.

 

The Milo bag rate is 0.77#N/1000. (I like suggesting 2x bag rate for new turf, if tilled into the soil). But 3x bag rate is 2.3#N & 1.5#P per 1000, which seems like a whole lot of unnecessary phosphorous especially if applied twice yearly. The added concern of PFAS 'forever chemicals' that come from sewage sludge is also worrisome and sometimes contradicts the 'organic' mentality that most have in choosing this method of fertilization. The question I would have is, what's you reason with going 'organic' vs synthetic?

We should probably mention that nitrogen, no matter how applied, can only be taken up by plants in the ammonium or nitrate forms. Frankly the turf has no clue nor does it care how these ions were delivered to them, they just know to use them when they're available to them in these specific forms. With organics you're essentially feeding the soil ecosystem, working together with nature to stimulate soil activity that would then become fertilizer for the turf. You apply organics because you want nature to control the outcome, not you! Otherwise go with synthetics. Oh, and the argument of 'forcing growth with fast acting nitrogen' is more an argument of How Much nitrogen is applied vs What Type. If you read how Urea requires the soil microorganisms to be active and in order for the ammonium ions to be released you may borderline categorize it as an organic fertilizer ! I think @Green posted some good info on that recently. That leaves the benefits of organics limited to long-term soil structure as well as overall soil biome improvement.

Btw lots of other products on the market combine both synthetics (for the added N%) and organics to address exactly what your post brings up. Clarus Screamin Green comes to mind. Earthworks4Home is another i've recently heard about. And many many others. Worth looking into them vs pumping all those unnecessary extras into your soil with these heavy app rates.

 

Some good points so far, but also some I think may not be fully complete on both sides of the "debate".

A long time ago, I tried medium to high rates of "organic" ferts. The results were almost as bad as medium rates of "synthetics". Too much growth, poor quality, etc. said I'd never do it again.

But I still think products (including Milo) that contain or are composed from natural ingredients do a great job in my location from mid Spring to at least late Summer (and even a bit into Fall).

I now take more of a spoon feeding approach even with natural based products, realizing that what I applied several weeks before is what is currently affecting the grass moreso that what I applied 3 days before. I save the "heavier" fertilizer apps for late Summer to mid Fall. I want the slowest healthy growth I can get away with in Spring and early Summer, so I don't have to ever mow more than twice per week.

I think it's more about consistency/stability: amount versus frequency than anything else first and foremost, when it comes to fertilizing. Just like with mowing.

 

Grain based fertilizer are essentially high protein animal feed and contain no phosphorus.

This is not true. Soybean meal is 7-1.5-1. alfalfa is 2-1-2, I would think most natural ferts have P.

 

FYI, Milo is not a certified organic fertilizer. It is a biosolid from sewer waste. It has whatever was thrown into the sewer system for Milwaukee.

 

I know what you mean. Especially if you are used to the fast green up of a synthetic. Sometimes I’ve supplemented a milo app with 3/4 lb of urea to jump start things a bit. Or at least in the spring or fall.

If you don’t like the high phos I suppose you could try another type of organic like ringer that doesn’t have the phos like Milo.

 

I know what you mean. Especially if you are used to the fast green up of a synthetic. Sometimes I’ve supplemented a milo app with 3/4 lb of urea to jump start things a bit. Or at least in the spring or fall.

If you don’t like the high phos I suppose you could try another type of organic like ringer that doesn’t have the phos like Milo.

Sometimes I use whatever is at the feed store. While not really a fertilizer I have put alfalfa pellets down and had very good results. I haven't repeated that experiment so I don't know if the results were truly the alfalfa. I've also used cottonseed meal. I do spread compost but can't find a quality product sold by the bag. Mushroom compost is better than nothing but not particularly good.

Most problem lawns with reasonable cultural conditions for grass have poor soil. The only way to build lawn soil within one's lifetime without tilling in compost is top dressing and organic fertilizers. Gardeners get this. Most people giving advice on youtube and lawn forums are obviously not gardeners.

Since I've studied horticulture even the university turf guys and extension services teach that grass diseases are usually caused by practices that used to be considered standard.

From my security camera this morning:

 

What I noticed in my backyard low input low maintenance hardly watered all organic fertilizer for a decade with just pre M its self sufficient at this point. Tons of earth worms hardly no fungus battles and no weeds. My front high maintenance not organic lawn I'm always chasing my tail

 

I find organic fertilizers (as in compost material) effective at the low rates. It does take many months to seasons to see a difference and what I find is most people do not have patience and consistency. The miloganite rate might be for that high P reason, but I like to think it was to ensure a nice slow release that won’t overfeed the lawn, especially in the summer. Like a maintenance feeding or supplement to your main program.

I once questioned some gardeners at my local extension about the rates of organics and they told me since I was feeding the soil and microbial life, there was more fertilizer that the bag label rate because more would be naturally broken down in the soil overall during the growing season. I have seen some results of this… spreading some extra compost over an area that isn’t maintained, watered, or fertilized, the grass (and weeds) are growing slightly better than the areas a few feet away where compost wasn’t spread.

I was also told that we generally have to apply a much higher rate of synthetics because much of it is lost or inaccessible so I shouldn’t worry about it if I was adding good compost, despite the compost rates being .5 NPK.

I have noticed the same as M32075 - the composted areas are just self maintaining just fine. I never questioned or researched more simply because it was working without problems.

To those who might think there is a conspiracy of new members - ever consider people see a problem at certain times of the year and go googling for answers? It is not hard to believe new people end up here and signing up to ask something. At least that was my story.

 

To those who might think there is a conspiracy of new members

I bet you googled “cyberdyne” didn’t you?

Yeah you did.

Sad that you read literally every single post on here.

 

I’m old enough to have seen the Terminator movies without having to google it.

I don’t know where the sad comment came in. I’m quite happy that I can read and communicate with others. It seems various people have responded with useful information or views while these “cyberdyne” comments lead to nothing useful other than FUD and present a form of cyberbullying. I believe these types of posts go against community rule 2.

Perhaps it was my mistake for even responding to a logical reason people would show up on the forums at certain times of the year. Lesson learned - I’ll just add to my ignore list and I encourage anyone who thinks they need to ignore other users (including myself) do the same.

 

I’m old enough to have seen the Terminator movies without having to google it.

I don’t know where the sad comment came in. I’m quite happy that I can read and communicate with others. It seems various people have responded with useful information or views while these “cyberdyne” comments lead to nothing useful other than FUD and present a form of cyberbullying. I believe these types of posts go against community rule 2.

Perhaps it was my mistake for even responding to a logical reason people would show up on the forums at certain times of the year. Lesson learned - I’ll just add to my ignore list and I encourage anyone who thinks they need to ignore other users (including myself) do the same.

You’re so addicted to this. Funny. Very very funny.

 

This thread is not going anywhere. I'm going to lock it.