Is your yard bumpy or flat? And are you doing a full reno or just an overseeding?

5 yards may be a bit much - 3 would probably do it unless you have major dips or bumps to fix.

If your soil is already decent-quality you may not need it. Just make sure to loosen up the soil a bit before laying seed so you can still get good contact.

 

I wouldn't unless you have really bad grading issues... You would be asking for problems IMHO, exhibit a, from this very forum:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

tldr is the poster also from central NJ, says they assume they got triv in their renovation from top soil:

The place I ordered the soil from claims it is:
"A high quality screened, organic, compost topsoil. This mixture has the most nutrients and is the richest topsoil."

It's frustrating because I don't have a way to prove it was the soil, or the seed. I've never seen it anywhere in my yard until this spring though. :roll:

Given they use the same words to describe the soil my guess is you are talking about the same place.....

When I did my renovation I ordered a mix of mason sand and mushroom compost to level spots out. That could be a better option if you don't need to do some leveling and since it is not traditional compost or soil from god knows where, the risk of noxious weed seeds should be minimal.

 

Is your yard bumpy or flat? And are you doing a full reno or just an overseeding?

5 yards may be a bit much - 3 would probably do it unless you have major dips or bumps to fix.

If your soil is already decent-quality you may not need it. Just make sure to loosen up the soil a bit before laying seed so you can still get good contact.

Yard is fairly flat, I have one major low spot I need to fix. Also, where my fence is, it slightly slopes upward against the fence - i had to add soil last year to make sure there were no gaps between fence and ground. Kind of concerned about that as water can pool up there in the winter after a big storm/snow melt.

 

I wouldn't unless you have really bad grading issues... You would be asking for problems IMHO, exhibit a, from this very forum:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

tldr is the poster also from central NJ, says they assume they got triv in their renovation from top soil:

The place I ordered the soil from claims it is:
"A high quality screened, organic, compost topsoil. This mixture has the most nutrients and is the richest topsoil."

It's frustrating because I don't have a way to prove it was the soil, or the seed. I've never seen it anywhere in my yard until this spring though. :roll:

Given they use the same words to describe the soil my guess is you are talking about the same place.....

When I did my renovation I ordered a mix of mason sand and mushroom compost to level spots out. That could be a better option if you don't need to do some leveling and since it is not traditional compost or soil from god knows where, the risk of noxious weed seeds should be minimal.

*Removed name of company - don't want to badmouth them, never had an issue with them

I've used it in the past for small areas (300sqft or less) and never had any problems but sounds better to avoid.

 

Yup I knew where it was from but didn't want to give any impression I was bad mouthing them. I don't think it is really their fault tbh, just the nature of the beast, bringing in foreign material has some inherent risks. I get my mulch delivered from there and it has always been a good experience. That is also where I got the sand and mushroom compost from and it was good stuff.

 

i just put 5 yards on 2500sq'

it was the exact amount i needed for full coverage. i had a few holes to fill from removing rocks etc.

i also put 5 yards down in the spring. now i have a very level, smooth yard!~

 

Yup I knew where it was from but didn't want to give any impression I was bad mouthing them. I don't think it is really their fault tbh, just the nature of the beast, bringing in foreign material has some inherent risks. I get my mulch delivered from there and it has always been a good experience. That is also where I got the sand and mushroom compost from and it was good stuff.

Just edited the post to remove the name - I have always had great experiences as well and get my mulch from there.

You are absolutely right - most likely something out of their control.

 

Hey all,

I see a lot of renovations on this forum where topsoil is spread across the entire lawn surface to create a nice seed bed. Wondering if it is absolutely necessary? I actually would like to do it but not sure if I need to. The place by me has:

Black Gold Topsoil
"A high quality screened, organic, compost topsoil."

I am thinking 5 yards for my 2700sqft yard. Thoughts? Seeding 90% TTTF 10% KBG

i just put 5 yards on 2500sq'

it was the exact amount i needed for full coverage. i had a few holes to fill from removing rocks etc.

i also put 5 yards down in the spring. now i have a very level, smooth yard!~

Very tempting to do this, just concerned about weed seed. I have used top soil in the past with no issues so I may roll with it.

 

Hey all,

I see a lot of renovations on this forum where topsoil is spread across the entire lawn surface to create a nice seed bed. Wondering if it is absolutely necessary? I actually would like to do it but not sure if I need to. The place by me has:

Black Gold Topsoil
"A high quality screened, organic, compost topsoil."

I am thinking 5 yards for my 2700sqft yard. Thoughts? Seeding 90% TTTF 10% KBG

i just put 5 yards on 2500sq'

it was the exact amount i needed for full coverage. i had a few holes to fill from removing rocks etc.

i also put 5 yards down in the spring. now i have a very level, smooth yard!~

Very tempting to do this, just concerned about weed seed. I have used top soil in the past with no issues so I may roll with it.

yeah i just kind of decided i was nuking my backyard last minute. i left a few areas that seem to have filled in since spring and i'm using the same seed.

so i didn't fallow i may regret that decision!

but i did put tenacity down.

 

what do you all pay for topsoil in august/September? here in southeast PA we pay $25-$32 a yard for screen topsoil. No idea if that is near average or not.

 

what do you all pay for topsoil in august/September? here in southeast PA we pay $25-$32 a yard for screen topsoil. No idea if that is near average or not.

$33/yd here and free delivery for over 5 yd.

I believe that's a consistent price - doesn't change based on time of year for us.

 

This is an interesting thread and now I'm wondering if bagged top soils Ive used in past years explains some of the weeds I'm dealing with now?!

Now I am thinking of just using a mix of peat moss and sand ... any thoughts?

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

Pre M keeps weed seeds from germinating but if you put it down to prevent the 0.02% weed seed in the bag, it would keep the 99.98% of grass seed from germinating too.

Pre M is helpful no doubt, but it is not 100% by any stretch. A lot of weeds will still make it through.

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

I had asked the same question recently in a different thread, similar answers to what @gm560 has provided you with.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21539&p=308758#p308758

 

Top soil is chock full of weeds and rocks. Dont add it unless you have to level.

You dont need to add dirt or material to create a seed bed, in fact, bare soil is a worse seed bed than what is already there, has proven to grow grass, and has some stubble in place to fix the soil in place.

 

Top soil is chock full of weeds and rocks. Dont add it unless you have to level.

You dont need to add dirt or material to create a seed bed, in fact, bare soil is a worse seed bed than what is already there, has proven to grow grass, and has some stubble in place to fix the soil in place.

But..... Ryan Knorr has like 5 videos where you top dresses the lawn with topsoil. I was all set to do this and now I'm here reading this posts wondering what I can do.

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

Pre M keeps weed seeds from germinating but if you put it down to prevent the 0.02% weed seed in the bag, it would keep the 99.98% of grass seed from germinating too.

Pre M is helpful no doubt, but it is not 100% by any stretch. A lot of weeds will still make it through.

I am new to lawn care and I find this conversation contradicting each time I come across it. I have heard numerous times that Pre M would keep grass seed from germinating but at the same time people have suggested putting down a starter fert like Scotts' which contains mesotrione herbicide while overseeding. People swear by tenacity on this forum for it works similarly and doesn't affect the seed from germination.

Since, I am planning to overseed my lawn this fall I would like to know which part of the conversation is correct. I believe both are in a sense most herbicides will affect the seed germination but why not recommend mesotrione if it works?

Edit: My bad I just realized Pre-M is a product and not short for pre emergent. :dumb:

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

Pre M keeps weed seeds from germinating but if you put it down to prevent the 0.02% weed seed in the bag, it would keep the 99.98% of grass seed from germinating too.

Pre M is helpful no doubt, but it is not 100% by any stretch. A lot of weeds will still make it through.

I am new to lawn care and I find this conversation contradicting each time I come across it. I have heard numerous times that Pre M would keep grass seed from germinating but at the same time people have suggested putting down a starter fert like Scotts' which contains mesotrione herbicide while overseeding. People swear by tenacity on this forum for it works similarly and doesn't affect the seed from germination.

Since, I am planning to overseed my lawn this fall I would like to know which part of the conversation is correct. I believe both are in a sense most herbicides will affect the seed germination but why not recommend mesotrione if it works?

Edit: My bad I just realized Pre-M is a product and not short for pre emergent. :dumb:

No I mean Pre-M to mean pre emergent. Tenacity does have pre emergent qualities but most do not consider it to be a pre emergent in the way they would prodiamine or dimension. Yes you can use tenacity at seeding and it will help keep many weeds out of your reno, but its pre emergent residual is only about 30 days, vs many months for prodiamine or dimension. Also it is more selective than prodiamine or dimension, so many things other than your desired grass seed could slip through if they are present in the soil.

 

Question: why can't using a Pre M stop any weeds in the topsoil from sprouting or surviving. Same goes for the 0.02% of weed seed in the seed bag. Won't Pre M just knock those out?

Pre M keeps weed seeds from germinating but if you put it down to prevent the 0.02% weed seed in the bag, it would keep the 99.98% of grass seed from germinating too.

Pre M is helpful no doubt, but it is not 100% by any stretch. A lot of weeds will still make it through.

I am new to lawn care and I find this conversation contradicting each time I come across it. I have heard numerous times that Pre M would keep grass seed from germinating but at the same time people have suggested putting down a starter fert like Scotts' which contains mesotrione herbicide while overseeding. People swear by tenacity on this forum for it works similarly and doesn't affect the seed from germination.

Since, I am planning to overseed my lawn this fall I would like to know which part of the conversation is correct. I believe both are in a sense most herbicides will affect the seed germination but why not recommend mesotrione if it works?

Edit: My bad I just realized Pre-M is a product and not short for pre emergent. :dumb:

People often get confused with Mesotrione (active ingredient in Tenacity and Scott's Starter Fert) and other pre-emergents like Prodiamine and Dimension. Mesotrione can be used to kills weeds and prevent them. It is used as a pre-em at seed down. It doesn't affect grass seed from germinating. It offers 30 days of pre-emergent coverage.

Prodiamine and Dimension are conventional pre-emergents that WILL prevent grass seed from germinating. These cannot be used if dropping seed. Depending on the rate used, you can expect coverage from 3 to 8 months (for Prodiamine). Best times for application are Fall before soil temps reach 70F and Spring before soil temps reach 55F.

Pre-m is the same as pre-em; both of which are short for pre-emergent. It is not a separate product.

If you are over seeding, I would NOT use starter fert as it contains nitrogen, which will force your existing grass to grow and out compete the new seedlings.

 

Pre M keeps weed seeds from germinating but if you put it down to prevent the 0.02% weed seed in the bag, it would keep the 99.98% of grass seed from germinating too.

Pre M is helpful no doubt, but it is not 100% by any stretch. A lot of weeds will still make it through.

I am new to lawn care and I find this conversation contradicting each time I come across it. I have heard numerous times that Pre M would keep grass seed from germinating but at the same time people have suggested putting down a starter fert like Scotts' which contains mesotrione herbicide while overseeding. People swear by tenacity on this forum for it works similarly and doesn't affect the seed from germination.

Since, I am planning to overseed my lawn this fall I would like to know which part of the conversation is correct. I believe both are in a sense most herbicides will affect the seed germination but why not recommend mesotrione if it works?

Edit: My bad I just realized Pre-M is a product and not short for pre emergent. :dumb:

No I mean Pre-M to mean pre emergent. Tenacity does have pre emergent qualities but most do not consider it to be a pre emergent in the way they would prodiamine or dimension. Yes you can use tenacity at seeding and it will help keep many weeds out of your reno, but its pre emergent residual is only about 30 days, vs many months for prodiamine or dimension. Also it is more selective than prodiamine or dimension, so many things other than your desired grass seed could slip through if they are present in the soil.

So isn't that why you would use tenacity at germination and then a post emergent 30 day's later after establishment?

 

Top soil is chock full of weeds and rocks. Dont add it unless you have to level.

You dont need to add dirt or material to create a seed bed, in fact, bare soil is a worse seed bed than what is already there, has proven to grow grass, and has some stubble in place to fix the soil in place.

But..... Ryan Knorr has like 5 videos where you top dresses the lawn with topsoil. I was all set to do this and now I'm here reading this posts wondering what I can do.

I'm sure he had his reasons why. With anything there are trade offs, you just need to know the risks. if you need to regrade or do serious re leveling, you probably can't avoid bringing in new soil. I think HLG is just saying don't think you need to bring in new top soil just because.... it can actually make things more difficult.

 

So isn't that why you would use tenacity at germination and then a post emergent 30 day's later after establishment?

It is why you would use tenacity at seed down. Personally I wouldn't follow up with anything, pre or post emergent other than tenacity on 30 day old grass.

But the point is somewhat moot. If you brought some Poa Triv, or some other other grassy weed seeds in with your top soil Tenacity won't keep it from germinating with your seed and won't control it after the fact... and basically nothing will selectively. This is why we try to keep it out at all costs in the first place.... and why we fallow (water bare soil), so we can eliminate these problems before they are much more difficult to deal with.

 

^+1 The main takeaway here is when bringing in soil, it is ideal to do this step much earlier than your planned seed down date and fallow for a few weeks beforehand. This will encourage weeds in the soil to grow, at which point you can use glyphosate to kill them off. Doing 2-3 rounds of this helps drastically reduce the amount of new weeds that pop up.

Usually Tenacity is used at seed down and then again 30 days later, as @gm560 mentioned. Then, 60 days post germination, you would apply prodiamine or dimension as your regular pre-emergent.

Thus the importance of planning your project well in advance so that you can bring in soil, fallow then get your seed down early enough in order to get a fall pre-em application.

Is this always possible? Nope. But doing so give you a higher chance of success.

There are many ways to achieve a great lawn. Taking the short route often leads to more time and money being spent in the future.

 

Top soil is chock full of weeds and rocks. Dont add it unless you have to level.

You dont need to add dirt or material to create a seed bed, in fact, bare soil is a worse seed bed than what is already there, has proven to grow grass, and has some stubble in place to fix the soil in place.

I agree with this. I ordered 5 yards of "screened high quality" topsoil but didn't use most of it because it was full of clay chunks, rocks, and other junk debris. Turns out I didn't really need it and the grass grew fine.