I've been carrying on having a look around the forum and found lots of talk of herbicides, is it recommended these days to apply a pre-emergent herbicide at the same time as seeding to prevent weedgrowth during the slow establishment of KBG? If so, which one? tenancity? Also, what about post-emergent herbicide for KBG/PRG?

Finally, PGR's, when do you put these down, once the lawn has established? if so, whats recomened for KBG/PRG? Primo max/moddus?

 

I've been carrying on having a look around the forum and found lots of talk of herbicides, is it recommended these days to apply a pre-emergent herbicide at the same time as seeding to prevent weedgrowth during the slow establishment of KBG? If so, which one? tenancity? Also, what about post-emergent herbicide for KBG/PRG?

Finally, PGR's, when do you put these down, once the lawn has established? if so, whats recomened for KBG/PRG? Primo max/moddus?

Hi there, another Brit.

We can't get pre-emergents over here, they're pretty much non existent unless you go to the effort of importing some.

Primo Maxx is obviously preferred but it's stupidly expensive, people have been using moddus and I have a non branded one I'll be testing soon. As for when to throw down, I'm not sure. There are plenty of non UK threads on it.

 

The only pre-emergent safe for use at the time of seeding is Tenacity. Dimension and Barricade will prevent the seedlings from establishing and the seeding will fail.

Primo or it's generic are a good option for TTTF, KBG, and PRG. I am also curious how soon it can be used after seeding. The label says you can use it on PRG at 85% cover (around the first mowing). I assume it would be the same for TTF and KBG, but don't know for sure.

 

What do you think about the choice of KBG/PRG mix, or do you think I should go 100% one type or the other. I've seen some pre-mixed PRG that has interesting marketing. Johnson's premier pitch. I'm yet to hear back from DLF about their cultivars.

 

I was able to purchase Tenacity through the e bay from a seller in Florida but I don't know if you could get it now in time or if it even would arrive.

Your method of tilling, spraying glypho, waiting, spraying, waiting should in theory reduce the changes of too many weeds but you will have some.

As bigbew said, Moddus is cheap but you won't need to use it for some time yet.

You won't go wrong with your choices of seed, see if DLF will sell you a small test sample size so you can try them out. Or seed the ones you suggested as both are good.

I don't know anything about which type is preferred if you have a dog sorry.

How will you level the soil and will you bring in any new material like compost, topsoil, etc. ?

Premier Pitch looks excellent as is PM79. There is a guy who won UK's best lawn who uses PM79, Daniel Hibbert I think is his name. Have a look at his twitter profile, he uses PM79 and DLF even used one of his lawns on their bags!

 

DLF usually refer you to their distributors. I did make a big contact list somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.

I think it comes down to preference for the blend. I've heard it's tough to maintain a single strain, but then in some cases it looks better. If you're doing this for the first time a blend may be better, the prg will germinate first to give you coverage while the bluegrass comes in, and in the long term the bluegrass will creep and eventually take over without overseeding.

 

How will you level the soil and will you bring in any new material like compost, topsoil, etc. ?

I've got a medium duty rotovator hired this weekend so going to turn it over to a depth of 8inches and level with landscape rakes and a levelling lute. I'm not planning on bringing in any new material. The top soil I've got here is nice and loamy and goes down a good couple of feet. I am still however, awaiting results back from lab. so if I need to adjust anything I can before seeding.

 

DLF usually refer you to their distributors. I did make a big contact list somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.

I think it comes down to preference for the blend. I've heard it's tough to maintain a single strain, but then in some cases it looks better. If you're doing this for the first time a blend may be better, the prg will germinate first to give you coverage while the bluegrass comes in, and in the long term the bluegrass will creep and eventually take over without overseeding.

That's good to hear, I've read elsewhere that the PRG will out compete the KBG so the idea is to start off with a high ratio of KBG to keep it at bay, or atleast seed the KBG before the PRG.

 

Rotovator did a superb job. Hired a BCS C8. Managed to get down to about 8" all over.

The lawn will be straight down the middle with bed and path to the left and another bed to the right.



I now need to go through and sift out all the stones, will then use a scaffold pole to get a fairly true level, compress and repeat. I've also started the 2 week wait with glyphosphate in hand ready to go down. I also have a sprinkler system that I need to dig and plumb in.

 

Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.

 

Looking good Liam. I used a scaffold board to level, had to find one that was true but worked a treat. You may want to use string lines to check levels.

 

Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.

Was going to wait till I got my sprinklers in next weekend, but maybe I'll water it with a hose got now to get it started. What about when the glyphosphate is down? Is it best to keep it dry to avoid washing it off?

 

Looking good Liam. I used a scaffold board to level, had to find one that was true but worked a treat. You may want to use string lines to check levels.

Ah yeah I might get a scaffold board as well then give it a try. I've got a scaffolder mate so no probs sourcing. And yeah, had some string lines down for the initial level off then took them up and rotovator again to ensure still had an 8inch depth all over. Will get them down again for the final level off.

 

Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.

Was going to wait till I got my sprinklers in next weekend, but maybe I'll water it with a hose got now to get it started. What about when the glyphosphate is down? Is it best to keep it dry to avoid washing it off?

The water is to promote weed growth so I would try watering it every 48hr maybe; make anything in the soil grow. When you do put gly down give it 24 hours. Then start the process again till you are ready to put seed down. People even put gly down just before seed day to kill of everything and it does not hurt the seed.
Of course a lot of people put down mesotrione (Tenacity) for its pre-emergent property but it helps with some of the post emergent stuff as well.

 

The water is to promote weed growth so I would try watering it every 48hr maybe; make anything in the soil grow. When you do put gly down give it 24 hours. Then start the process again till you are ready to put seed down. People even put gly down just before seed day to kill of everything and it does not hurt the seed.
Of course a lot of people put down mesotrione (Tenacity) for its pre-emergent property but it helps with some of the post emergent stuff as well.

Thanks, now got the sprinkler temporarily set up, I started with a hose and gave up!

 

Barenbrug RPR sport and Sportmaster Preseeder(8:12:8) arrived. Super quick turn around from collier turf on a next day service.

I decided on RPR after speaking to a number of UK dealers. All of them advised against KBG(SSMG) and said the UK is probably 3 degrees too cool for it. The also all advised me to go to a 100% PRG mix. The dealers that offered 'creeping' rye further recommended an element of that in the mix for its self repairing capabilities. After much deliberation, i settled on the RPR sport from barenbrug.
it contains:
40% Barcristalla
30% Barlibro (creeping)
30% Barorlando



I've also got the following on the way

Nitrogen - N
Urea Prills for regular feed
ammonium sulphate(AMS) for use in conjunction with other chemical to increase uptake.

Phosphate - P
yet to source for cheap enough, will hold off until soil test results come back, already got some in my starter fert.

Potassium - K
potassium sulphate(potash)

Iron - Fe
ferrous sulphate

Plant Growth Regulator - PGR
Trinexapac-ethyl

I plan on doing PGR, FE and AMS sprays every 3 weeks

Herbicides
Tenacity for new lawn establishment
Already have some triclopyr and glyphosate for sport treatment if required
Yet to decide if any other pre-ems required, eg prodiamine (barricade) or pendimethalin (available in UK) cant use on new lawn anyway so will wait.

Fungicide
Yet to decide if preventative measures required.

 

I wish I had the cash for that order from Collier Turf, still debating if I can justify 20kg or to buy some from you

Have you considered an all in one fert? I was looking at the 17-2-8 Vitax fert from Colliers. Seemed a good ratio and balance of organic and synthetic to me with some added micro benefits.

 

First post, fellow Brit here and just wanted to say I've subscribed to the topic to follow your progress with the Barenburg RPR. It's been on my radar recently as a potential solution to self repair dog spots.

What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?

 

Have you considered an all in one fert? I was looking at the 17-2-8 Vitax fert from Colliers. Seemed a good ratio and balance of organic and synthetic to me with some added micro benefits.

I'm still waiting on the soil results back from the lab, but at the moment i'm thinking ill spoon feed urea regualaraly and then adjust P and K if necessary on an ad-hoc basis.

 

What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?

Using figures from BSPB 2020 i created a spreadsheet to calculate overall mix performance, Barlibro (the Barenbrug RPR cultivar) isnt in the BSPB, but is in the french turfgrass-list, where it performs very well.

For the 'creeping' rye, it came down to RPR sport, RPR golf and germinal a30. Whilst the a30 was the best value for money, it sort of wasn't because it was only a 10kg bag vs Barenrbugs 20kg bags. I only needed 10kg though. Ultimately i didnt pick the a30 because both the RPR's performed better. I chose RPR sport over golf as total greeness(combined summer/winter) and disease resistance were higher than the golf. The RPR sport was also cheaper. Finally, i've seen the RPR sport(used to be called stadium) used in a couple of places online, @piotrkol and @j1ggy from here. Looks really good. The RPR sprint i didnt consider because 'RPR SPRINT is designed to be maintained at 60mm+ height of cut' so it's cultivar selection has been picked around that goal. I think mow height is also a contributing factor toward my selection of RPR sport. it's recommended HOC at 18mm is roughly what ill be going for. the RPR golf was 12mm.

 

After rotivating to 8inches last weekend, this weekend me and a friend set about installing the two sprinklers and getting a final level to the lawn.



We used 21ft scaffold poles set across the lawn against a string line. Dug out each bay and stamped down the soil then added screened (8mm) topsoil and screeded off with a timber.

 

Herbicides
Tenacity for new lawn establishment
Already have some triclopyr and glyphosate for sport treatment if required
Yet to decide if any other pre-ems required, eg prodiamine (barricade) or pendimethalin (available in UK) cant use on new lawn anyway so will wait.

Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?

 

Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?

Thanks, you need a lawn journal so i can have a look! I got the Tenacity from someone in the UK who'd bought it from an american eBay seller.

 

Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?

Thanks, you need a lawn journal so i can have a look! I got the Tenacity from someone in the UK who'd bought it from an american eBay seller.

Okay, thanks. I have been looking at US Amazon and Ebay but I will just have to look a bit harder for someone who will ship to the EU.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time it takes to put into a lawn journal but here's a few pics of my lawn about three weeks after I scarified, overseeded (again with RPR Intensive), and top dressed with sand to level out the humps and bumps it had gotten over the years.

 

What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?

Using figures from BSPB 2020 i created a spreadsheet to calculate overall mix performance, Barlibro (the Barenbrug RPR cultivar) isnt in the BSPB, but is in the french turfgrass-list, where it performs very well.

For the 'creeping' rye, it came down to RPR sport, RPR golf and germinal a30. Whilst the a30 was the best value for money, it sort of wasn't because it was only a 10kg bag vs Barenrbugs 20kg bags. I only needed 10kg though. Ultimately i didnt pick the a30 because both the RPR's performed better. I chose RPR sport over golf as total greeness(combined summer/winter) and disease resistance were higher than the golf. The RPR sport was also cheaper. Finally, i've seen the RPR sport(used to be called stadium) used in a couple of places online, @piotrkol and @j1ggy from here. Looks really good. The RPR sprint i didnt consider because 'RPR SPRINT is designed to be maintained at 60mm+ height of cut' so it's cultivar selection has been picked around that goal. I think mow height is also a contributing factor toward my selection of RPR sport. it's recommended HOC at 18mm is roughly what ill be going for. the RPR golf was 12mm.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Definitely swaying towards RPR Sport myself now. Looking forward to seeing how your project progresses, good luck.