Yes. The new reasearch keeps pointing that the only 10-20% of the late nitrogen is used by the plants and not for root grow.

We have discussed this in the Fall Nitrogen Blitz thread. Check it out. Habits are hard to change, but with time we will evolve to a new approach.

 

Thanks - will. do.

 

Sorry dont have time to watch an hour long video right now, so are they saying the final winter app doesn't help with spring green up or growth or what?

 

Thanks for the heads up, I'll watch both part 1 and part II later when I get a chance. I decided to use Video DownloadHelper in Firefox to download both videos to my computer. I'll speed them up in VLC when I watch them later, as I prefer to watch things at 1.8x to 2.0x. I did notice the online player also has a speed adjustment setting for those that want watch that way. And while I'm on the subject of speeding up videos, it can also be done in YouTube... just click the gear icon and select speed. It's coarser than I would like, so I settle for 1.5x as 2.0x is a tad fast on some videos.

There is nothing "simple" about it, you actually have to watch the whole thing to figure out what is best for YOUR grass and location. I did catch a glimpse of a reference to optimum K levels and their effect on snow mold, a hot....err.... cold topic around here.

 

Sorry dont have time to watch an hour long video right now, so are they saying the final winter app doesn't help with spring green up or growth or what?

I listened to the 15-min podcast while I was shaving the other day, and in that one, Rossi said that although a final application may be good for turf performance, data show that once you get into October (not sure what area he was talking about...it matters!), the amount of N taken up is lower than it is in September due to evapotranspiration being lower (less water needs, obviously in cooler weather). And from that, they concluded that it would be wise to limit or even skip large Nitrogen applications as the season goes on, since a lot of it leaches. They said if you're going to do it or have to do it, use less...0.5 lb/M or even less.

Local pros in my area have been moving more toward slow release N for the mid to late September application, which makes sense...it's similar to spoon-feeding if you use the right blend, but with less labor involved. You can drop a full 1 lb N per thousand square feet (or possibly even a bit more if you use a certain blend with a very controlled release) and have it last a good month or more.

 

Sorry dont have time to watch an hour long video right now, so are they saying the final winter app doesn't help with spring green up or growth or what?

Local pros in my area have been moving more toward slow release N for the mid to late September application, which makes sense...it's similar to spoon-feeding if you use the right blend, but with less labor involved. You can drop a full 1 lb N per thousand square feet (or possibly even a bit more if you use a certain blend with a very controlled release) and have it last a good month or more.

Ok that's pretty much what I do now. 1 lb of N per 1000sqft of Slow release in Sept and then i do a 46-0-0 in mid November.

This year switched it up some since i lost a few areas of my yard from heat/drought so applied fert in sept and oct.

 

Ok that's pretty much what I do now. 1 lb of N per 1000sqft of Slow release in Sept and then i do a 46-0-0 in mid November.

This year switched it up some since i lost a few areas of my yard from heat/drought so applied fert in sept and oct.

I like an app of Screamin' Green 16-2-3 at full rate for early Fall, followed up by a half rate final winterizer at the end. If I have time, I can work other apps in, in between. I could easily imagine doing 1.25 lb N using this particular fertilizer, and not hurting anything.

I think with these enhanced efficiency fertilizers, we're going to start seeing slightly more than 1 lb N being used in a single application for some uses, as time goes on. That's my next prediction as to how things will change.

For example (my own thoughts):

0.5 lb N mid Spring
0.5 lb N late Spring
1.25 lb N early Fall
0.333 lb N final Winterizer

That would only be 2.6 or so lbs of N total for the year, but much of it is timed at optimal peaks according to this research (except for the final app). The idea being that there would be more utilization and less waste.

Or some such version.

 

I had a closer look/listen to a couple of those videos.... Too late to change anything this year, though it has been more than a month since I hit the lawn with some 33-0-11. The big surprise to me what how negative potassium supplementation was. No real benefit and major implications as far as snow mold goes. Oh well... I won't be getting back on the lawn for 6 or so months, so I'll have plenty of time to re-watch those videos and figure it out for my own purposes. Bottom line was it pays to do a soil test, and I was also surprised that soil test depth had such a big impact. I use my hand aerator for sampling and it stops dead when it reaches 4 inches, so at least I should get consistent readings.

 

Keep in mind, I'm not a lawn expert. Just a guy that likes to take care of his yard.

Here is what I pulled out of that in a few images:

1.

So it looks like fall feeding didn't help push root growth, and the grass takes up N less efficiently as the temps cool. However, it does appear fall applications help spring color.

2.

Here is what Dr. Soldat found for color. An October feeding gives the best color up for the fall, but a November feeding appears to help with spring color.

3.

Dr. Soldat's recommendations.

Later in the video, he noted that Potassium applications were not a good idea for the fall, as they promoted snow mold. He recommends you keep your Potassium apps to the spring.

One thing to keep in mind, the studies were conducted on golf course putting greens. So the amounts they are applying may be higher than what we as homeowners apply.

Based on this, I'll keep my November fert app, just won't put it down heavy. While it won't help with the roots, it appears to help with spring color up. It also presents a strong argument to push the Labor Day fert app down the line a bit.

 

Yes, this was based on golf courses. With more sand based turf. Not soil based turf like most of us. I brought this up to a guy I know who is very knowledgeable in the field and this was taking as well.

Much of what is in the article is based on MLSN (Minimum Level Sustainable Nutrition), which is often revenue-driven, and not aimed at the owner of a much smaller residential lawn. Listen to it for 4-5 minutes at about the 32:00 mark and you'll hear things like "much too green", etc. Is your lawn too green?

While much of the discussion is about golf greens and tees (soil-less and not at all like your lawn soil or mine), there is one section on soil-based greens and the Spring Green-Up is definitely present in the graphs. In soil-less (sand) greens, it's not there. I'm guessing that very few of us have soil-less (sand-based) soil and think out lawns are too green. Also, the use of hard dates says that their applications are calendar dates, and not based on observation of growth stoppage.

 

MSLN doesn't look at nitrogen. I don't know why Andy said that.

Item #2 is based on Madison, WI soils, not sand based soils.

Yes, there is more green with late nov (In WI, top grow has stopped at this point) nitrogen. You could do the same with a spring nitrogen.

 

Im not saying I agree completely with Andy. I just always try to keep things open for further discussion. I know he tends to have a strong opinion. Which I still value for the majority. But I also believe there is so many more variables out there that we don't even realize that it is hard to find a one size fits all for even half the yards out there. Where you need to find what works for your yard. What works for one might not work for another, even with simular or even identical circumstances.