[Thick n Dense]

Label:



Being pre germ'd, will report on effectiveness.

So this is funny and explains why germination rate was crap.
The bag says 61% Pure seed and of that, it has only a 70% germination rate. I'm bad at math but that's almost half.
That kind of says something about how fast this stuff spreads laterally because except for parts that didn't have any viable plants, the lawn was mostly filled in by June the following year.

 

[ABC123]

Are they even selling this seed anymore? are any of you doing any weekly foliar N apps?

 

[Thick n Dense]

Are they even selling this seed anymore? are any of you doing any weekly foliar N apps?

I dont see the need to fertilize.
No damage from summer, nice thick and green. Only areas with problems had grubs and confirmed by skunks tearing it up. Will most likely plug and hammer with N in the spring in those select spots.

 

[Thick n Dense]

On winter yellowing

Weve had about a month of 15-32* whether consitently with about 2 weeks of snow cover.
Snow has melted a bit and I see some yellow tips popping up but none before this point. It does not appear to be the whole blade but just the tips.

 

[desmorider804]

Label:



Being pre germ'd, will report on effectiveness.

So this is funny and explains why germination rate was crap.
The bag says 61% Pure seed and of that, it has only a 70% germination rate. I'm bad at math but that's almost half.
That kind of says something about how fast this stuff spreads laterally because except for parts that didn't have any viable plants, the lawn was mostly filled in by June the following year.

Hi, Thanks for allowing me to join the group. Very interested in the Provista KBG but a little apprehensive about paying $30.00/pd for seed that is 61% Pure. I know that some of it is a fungicide coating, but what does the remainder of the 39% consist of. Does the recommendation of seeding at 2.5lbs-3lbs take into account the 61% seed?

Thanks for any answers.

 

[ABC123]

I wouldnt worry too much about bluegrass as it can spread rather easily after established and given enough nitrogen. It will spread over time, weed seeds shouldnt be a problem because of the glyphosate resistance of the provista. Its still a new product but i believe it has high hopes, maybe further down the road they can make it a finer leaf.

 

[dicko1]

I think that label is really goofed up. I modified it to what I think its trying to say. Their printer was just having a bad day, thats all.

So pure seed is 85% and 14% is the seed coating.

 

[Thick n Dense]

@osuturfman
I can't comment on the water requirements and I can confirm that Scott's did backtrack on the water saving claims at some point from giving a number of water savings to saying less water requirement.
I typically let my lawn go dormant in the summer heat so I'll be able to report out next year.

That being said, less growth = less water required and also less blade length = less leaf evaporation area. However if you're lowing mow. The 2nd point is moots.

As far as the dormant Bermuda comment, do you have a source ?
In Michigan we've been hovering between 30-55* the past 2 weeks and the law hasn't changed color except got darker.

Scotts did say what you mentioned that some of the foliage in the spring will have what looks like burnt tips so as long and they're recommendation is to lower the hoc and cut off in spring.
When this occurs ? Idk... but i remember them saying Spring green up not winter. Time will tell but I doubt it goes dormant like bermuda or zoysia does.... again I'll be able to confirm or deny in the spring.

My neighbors kbg does this thing with the tips.... they had it sodded it couple of years ago, its gotta be midnight or some other dark dark kbg. So the burnt tips might be something inherent to the parent grasses.

The other thing we need to find is if pounding it with N after establishment will push top growth. If we can then this even becomes less of an issue as we can push it then hack it off.

If you reel mow id think its even less of an even of an issue... let it get up to 2" in the fall then drop down in spring and you're ready to roll.

I would make sure it's got plenty of green tissue going in the spring. It will take about 3-4 weeks for full green up.

I took these photos on March 28, 2019 at the original sod farm they established the Gen 1 and Gen 2 material for sod production. It's about 20 minutes south of Columbus, Ohio. It was not a particularly cold winter and we did not have many prolonged periods of snow cover. The grower confirmed this was a typical aesthetic for early spring.

Again, it's very much like how bermuda greens up in the northern part of the transition zone.

We haven't quite hit the spring warm up yet although we've had a slight break in the cold and the days started getting longer.
Something unexplainable is happening where the backyard is starting this yellowing affect and the front yard looks fantastic.
I have no explanation for why this is happening.

The grass tips aren't quite as bad as this picture shows and it's not anyworse than any lawn in the neighborhood that's damage from snow and dormant.

Warm up isn't in full swing yet and I'll continue to monitor.

 

[desmorider804]

@osuturfman
I can't comment on the water requirements and I can confirm that Scott's did backtrack on the water saving claims at some point from giving a number of water savings to saying less water requirement.
I typically let my lawn go dormant in the summer heat so I'll be able to report out next year.

That being said, less growth = less water required and also less blade length = less leaf evaporation area. However if you're lowing mow. The 2nd point is moots.

As far as the dormant Bermuda comment, do you have a source ?
In Michigan we've been hovering between 30-55* the past 2 weeks and the law hasn't changed color except got darker.

Scotts did say what you mentioned that some of the foliage in the spring will have what looks like burnt tips so as long and they're recommendation is to lower the hoc and cut off in spring.
When this occurs ? Idk... but i remember them saying Spring green up not winter. Time will tell but I doubt it goes dormant like bermuda or zoysia does.... again I'll be able to confirm or deny in the spring.

My neighbors kbg does this thing with the tips.... they had it sodded it couple of years ago, its gotta be midnight or some other dark dark kbg. So the burnt tips might be something inherent to the parent grasses.

The other thing we need to find is if pounding it with N after establishment will push top growth. If we can then this even becomes less of an issue as we can push it then hack it off.

If you reel mow id think its even less of an even of an issue... let it get up to 2" in the fall then drop down in spring and you're ready to roll.

I would make sure it's got plenty of green tissue going in the spring. It will take about 3-4 weeks for full green up.

I took these photos on March 28, 2019 at the original sod farm they established the Gen 1 and Gen 2 material for sod production. It's about 20 minutes south of Columbus, Ohio. It was not a particularly cold winter and we did not have many prolonged periods of snow cover. The grower confirmed this was a typical aesthetic for early spring.

Again, it's very much like how bermuda greens up in the northern part of the transition zone.

We haven't quite hit the spring warm up yet although we've had a slight break in the cold and the days started getting longer.
Something unexplainable is happening where the backyard is starting this yellowing affect and the front yard looks fantastic.
I have no explanation for why this is happening.

The grass tips aren't quite as bad as this picture shows and it's not anyworse than any lawn in the neighborhood that's damage from snow and dormant.

Warm up isn't in full swing yet and I'll continue to monitor.

Do you think it could be some type of insect damage?

 

[Thick n Dense]

I would make sure it's got plenty of green tissue going in the spring. It will take about 3-4 weeks for full green up.

I took these photos on March 28, 2019 at the original sod farm they established the Gen 1 and Gen 2 material for sod production. It's about 20 minutes south of Columbus, Ohio. It was not a particularly cold winter and we did not have many prolonged periods of snow cover. The grower confirmed this was a typical aesthetic for early spring.

Again, it's very much like how bermuda greens up in the northern part of the transition zone.

We haven't quite hit the spring warm up yet although we've had a slight break in the cold and the days started getting longer.
Something unexplainable is happening where the backyard is starting this yellowing affect and the front yard looks fantastic.
I have no explanation for why this is happening.

The grass tips aren't quite as bad as this picture shows and it's not anyworse than any lawn in the neighborhood that's damage from snow and dormant.

Warm up isn't in full swing yet and I'll continue to monitor.

Do you think it could be some type of insect damage?

It's not possible for it to be insect damage. Unless they hide in the snow and do their thing in freezing temps :lol:
It was looking good up until snowfall > Snow covered for IDK like 30's days in total since Christmas, maybe more.

The only possible explanation is that it gets slightly more sunlight due to the orientation of the sun and the trees of the neighborhood.
Plus the house itself blocks the early morning and evening lights.

The discoloration is fairly uniform across as well... insect damage is typically in patches.

Gents - I'm ready to mow, every think about a super warm March !!! Manifest it into Reality !!! :bandit: :bandit: :bandit:

 

[rmengel]

Checking in here since I did a reno this past fall, seed down labor day IIRC.

It came in decent-ish, considering the late seed down. Theres a strip along the south sidewalk on my (corner) property that didn't do great, but it's only about 30x6' and I'm going to re-seed.

As for the area of my yard that got PV sod, it's looking pretty good.

If the monthly forecast in my area (same as Thick n Dense) is to be trusted, our last deep freeze risk of the season is March 30 (overnight 24F), so I'll likely do seed down the following morning.

This will be fun to experiment with since there is already very thin PV in this area that should start to spread, plus any weeds that do come up can be spot treated and/or blanket sprayed with gly once the grass matures some time around late July.

 

[Thick n Dense]

So coming into the 2nd spring and temps here have been quite cold.
Neighbors no name mixes are looking better right now as the PV is taking a but longer to perk up.
However its worth the slow green up for when the heat starts cranking.

On thing I realized is that PV isnt for anyone because due to the extreme retarded growth. Id the owner is not capabale of removing other grasses with gly. Then it will look so bad and not blend at all.
I guess it could be possible to have trugreen or someone do a gly. Application but is not the norm obviously.

Other issue i have is the ongoing rabbit feeding cycles. Again the grass doesnt grow fast enough to outcompete the rabbits eating it.

 

[critterdude311]

So coming into the 2nd spring and temps here have been quite cold.
Neighbors no name mixes are looking better right now as the PV is taking a but longer to perk up.
However its worth the slow green up for when the heat starts cranking.

On thing I realized is that PV isnt for anyone because due to the extreme retarded growth. Id the owner is not capabale of removing other grasses with gly. Then it will look so bad and not blend at all.
I guess it could be possible to have trugreen or someone do a gly. Application but is not the norm obviously.

Other issue i have is the ongoing rabbit feeding cycles. Again the grass doesnt grow fast enough to outcompete the rabbits eating it.

If you hit the ProVista KBG with nitrogen how does it respond? Do you get a "normal" rate of top growth with the extra nitrogen hit?

 

[desmorider804]

So coming into the 2nd spring and temps here have been quite cold.
Neighbors no name mixes are looking better right now as the PV is taking a but longer to perk up.
However its worth the slow green up for when the heat starts cranking.

On thing I realized is that PV isnt for anyone because due to the extreme retarded growth. Id the owner is not capabale of removing other grasses with gly. Then it will look so bad and not blend at all.
I guess it could be possible to have trugreen or someone do a gly. Application but is not the norm obviously.

Other issue i have is the ongoing rabbit feeding cycles. Again the grass doesnt grow fast enough to outcompete the rabbits eating it.

@Thick And Dense,

Any Regrets in going with the Provista? I picked up 20lbs of it with thoughts of doing a complete renovation, but a little unsure now. Lawn is a mixture of tttf and 365ss kbg, and it looks really good. I was hoping that the Provista would be a nicer, mor durable grass. I was going to reno my entire backyard this spring, but decided to only do a strip that is 3ft x 12ft at this time to see how it turns out.

I'm noticing something germinating after 5 days, and I'm thinking that can't be the Provista, but that area has been bare for over 1 month, and was sprayed killed twice.

I'm hoping that my little strip of Provista does well, or I will end up selling close to 20lbs of it. Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress.

 

[Thick n Dense]

So coming into the 2nd spring and temps here have been quite cold.
Neighbors no name mixes are looking better right now as the PV is taking a but longer to perk up.
However its worth the slow green up for when the heat starts cranking.

On thing I realized is that PV isnt for anyone because due to the extreme retarded growth. Id the owner is not capabale of removing other grasses with gly. Then it will look so bad and not blend at all.
I guess it could be possible to have trugreen or someone do a gly. Application but is not the norm obviously.

Other issue i have is the ongoing rabbit feeding cycles. Again the grass doesnt grow fast enough to outcompete the rabbits eating it.

@Thick And Dense,

Any Regrets in going with the Provista? I picked up 20lbs of it with thoughts of doing a complete renovation, but a little unsure now. Lawn is a mixture of tttf and 365ss kbg, and it looks really good. I was hoping that the Provista would be a nicer, mor durable grass. I was going to reno my entire backyard this spring, but decided to only do a strip that is 3ft x 12ft at this time to see how it turns out.

I'm noticing something germinating after 5 days, and I'm thinking that can't be the Provista, but that area has been bare for over 1 month, and was sprayed killed twice.

I'm hoping that my little strip of Provista does well, or I will end up selling close to 20lbs of it. Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress.

Regret is a strong word.
Some un-organized thoughts:

I think the word is out that Glyphosate's direct exposure causes cancer, there must have been some court case that proved it... speculation, IDK.
I say this because Scotts removed it from it's marketing on PV or kind of "hid it".
I typically still use a respirator and full covering but still makes me a bit uneasy about using it. My opinion on this has changed a bit since I ordered seed 2 years ago.

If I miss my Pre-M the weeds grow so much taller, that I can't just mow it down like a no mix. I have to Gly or use regular herbicides at that point. and Pre-M .
Before I could just be lazy and if I missed spring Prem, I could just cut and as long as I got prem down by crabgrass time, then I was good.

The color is "real good" but it's not top tier.
Check the posts in here about the Shade vs non shade pictures.
I have not done any Iron apps and also, i'm on Spring #2... some kbg darkens as it matures.
Iron apps probably will last twice as long due to the retarted growth factor.
But it's also possible that it hasn't matured yet or it's iron deficient as I haven't supplied iron since reno'ing.

But the grass is as advertised.

Count how many Poa Threads are on this forum... It's worth sacrificing the "Top notch color" for a uniform textured and Poa Free lawn that beats hot summers with minimal water input.

Since the the growth is much slower, I wonder about the grass clippings that supply the microbes in the soil.
To me, over time, there will be much less clippings.
But there's still the root cycling affect.

I guess the last difference is that I'm not mowing every Saturday, it was routine and kind of miss it but I'm a busy guy.
Someone said here that they won't like PV 'cause of this... No offense but if your kids are grown and you're an old retired person whose highlight of the week is to mow, we'll this will definility impact that.

 

[desmorider804]

Man, This grass is a challenge to grow. I have bags of seed in hopes to reno my lawn. I decided to do a small test strip about 3' x 12'. Cleared the area, put a thin layer of Scotts lawn soil, seeded, and raked seed in. The Scotts lawn soil contains starter fert. After two weeks baby grass has started poking through. The strange thing is that the baby grass pokes through but seems to turn brown and die within 2 days. I don't know what's going on with it, I'm keeping it moist and watering it 3 times per day for 5 minutes per cycle, and it's not thriving. Any thoughts? Central VA. for reference.

 

[Green]

Everyone,

Is Scotts still allowing seed to be sold to end users? Or just sod?

 

[Green]

@Thick n Dense, according to the guys on burn and return, the gly-cancer link is not verified scientifically. There is not sufficient evidence to show a cause and effect. Most of the negative stuff is currently still coming from unscientific sources, or those ignoring evidence or cherry picking studies, according to the guys' summaries of different sources that pop up in the news over the past year or two.

That said, it's not innocuous by any means. Definitely wear your respirator, goggles, gloves, and proper clothing, as you say. It's not supposed to get on skin or be inhaled. It's "safer" than some other things we use, though.

As far as Scotts removing it from some listings, I think this has more to do with their commitment to remove it from the residential market by next year, than with anything else. And that was spurred by class action lawsuits, some of which were powered by people who likely didn't use proper PPE. It bugs me to see a commercial with a guy wearing shorts using it, even today. They must want you to think there's no special protection needed, even clothing. Or they think people would think it was weird to see someone with gloves on in a commercial, I guess. Because, hey, as a casual homeowner, you're not supposed to have to ever use anything than shorts and sneakers for any task, right? Because they portray themselves as too cool to use PPE.

Not intending to stray from the thread topic or detract from the conversation! Everything you wrote about the grass above sounds good!

 

[Thick n Dense]

@Thick n Dense, according to the guys on burn and return, the gly-cancer link is not verified scientifically. There is not sufficient evidence to show a cause and effect. Most of the negative stuff is currently still coming from unscientific sources, or those ignoring evidence or cherry picking studies, according to the guys' summaries of different sources that pop up in the news over the past year or two.

That said, it's not innocuous by any means. Definitely wear your respirator, goggles, gloves, and proper clothing, as you say. It's not supposed to get on skin or be inhaled. It's "safer" than some other things we use, though.

As far as Scotts removing it from some listings, I think this has more to do with their commitment to remove it from the residential market by next year, than with anything else. And that was spurred by class action lawsuits, some of which were powered by people who likely didn't use proper PPE. It bugs me to see a commercial with a guy wearing shorts using it, even today. They must want you to think there's no special protection needed, even clothing. Or they think people would think it was weird to see someone with gloves on in a commercial, I guess. Because, hey, as a casual homeowner, you're not supposed to have to ever use anything than shorts and sneakers for any task, right? Because they portray themselves as too cool to use PPE.

Not intending to stray from the thread topic or detract from the conversation! Everything you wrote about the grass above sounds good!

What I meant was the fact that court cases have been won establishing that causality between uses and cancer.
We probably we never see anything scientific that proves this.

 

[desmorider804]

Everyone,

Is Scotts still allowing seed to be sold to end users? Or just sod?

Yes, still sold.