Got any pics? Does it cut paper all the way across the bedknife?

 

Yes it cuts paper all the way across the bedknife. It cuts fine on the less severe slope portions.

 

You are likely slipping on hill such that the reel ends up striking the leaf, but not cutting it. Change directions.

 

Maybe the drum is slipping, but the reel is still spinning so shouldn't it still be cutting? I'll try going a different direction, but I'm currently going diagonally so I don't dig in on the low side if I go perpendicular to the fall line. I'll see if that changes it.

 

You can see from the pictures the brown spots are pronounced, they are the severe shredding. I also show a less severe slope beside my driveway and that looks great.

6.5 MB

 

If the drum is slipping, the bedknife wont move and the reel will just beat on the leaf. In the image, it doesnt looks like only ryegrass.

 

Interesting thought. I would think if the reel and drum are spinning but not traveling forward very fast it would cut off the grass that it interacts with then essentially wait spin and wait for the next grass blade to approach. Would this be the same as just walking more slowly with the same speed of reel moving? I'm having a hard time understanding why you think if its spinning and I'm essentially traveling more slowly that it would tear instead of cut.

It was all new ryegrass out of the bag. Bare dirt and dead grass when I planted last fall. the picture next to the driveway is a rye/kbg mix.

 

https://cdn2.toro.com/en/-/media/Files/Toro/Commercial/education-technical-references/service-training-guides/09168sl_5-4-2018.ashx?la=en&hash=1531E3CD624D41D0E5C07157493AFECD0FF67BEE

 

Well it’s definitely NOT a spinning rear drum causing the shredding. I just mowed perpendicular to the slope. No spinning drum. It shredded the grass terribly. This is new grass planted in the fall. My older grass doesn’t do this. Could it be the fact it is new grass?

 

I own a manual reel mower and I get this when my reel blades and adjustable bed knife were not tightened down enough. When on level ground, there was no problem, but the stress on the metal parts on an angled slope (more weight on the front or back wheels or maybe even 1 side vs another) would actually cause the blade adjustment to be off enough to not cut. The reel spinning would then cause this shredding.

My solution ended up just being tightening up the adjustment bolts that locked in the bed knife blade to the appropriate setting.
I didn’t review the manual for your mower, but this is just a thought for you to check on.

Also I have found TTTF that is thick and healthy is pretty tough to cut in comparison to some other grasses.

 

I own a manual reel mower and I get this when my reel blades and adjustable bed knife were not tightened down enough. When on level ground, there was no problem, but the stress on the metal parts on an angled slope (more weight on the front or back wheels or maybe even 1 side vs another) would actually cause the blade adjustment to be off enough to not cut. The reel spinning would then cause this shredding.

My solution ended up just being tightening up the adjustment bolts that locked in the bed knife blade to the appropriate setting.
I didn’t review the manual for your mower, but this is just a thought for you to check on.

Also I have found TTTF that is thick and healthy is pretty tough to cut in comparison to some other grasses.

It is actually tighter than it should be. I had to make the contact tight to get it to cut paper. I might need a backlap or sharpening. But here is what my problem is….. it cuts the old grass just fine but the new grass from the fall is shredding terribly.

 

Is the 220c supposed to have reel to bedknife contact? The 220e specs 0.025mm clearance. The manual and official videos are very clear that you don't want contact. That is different than Toro which I think specs very light contact. Those shredded grass blades look like a dull reel. If the bedknife also needs contact to cut paper, it sounds like you need to backlap with the reel at the proper clearance. I would get the reel setup properly and see if that fixes the quality of cut.

 

Yes. Spec is to leave a tiny gap. I’m leaning towards dull blade not the slope. I’ll spend some time moving in that direction.

 

I set the bedknife to reel clearance after backlapping. The sharpening removes some material and can affect the clearance.

 

So I took backlapped the john deere and then still couldn't cut paper without having the reel to bedknife contact too tight. I took it back out on the lawn and went across the slope, no spinning rear drum and still got the terrible shredding and I'm talking terrible shredding, like 1/4" or more of shredded material. I'm going to go have the JD 220C sharpened and see where that gets me. I took my old mclane out there and it did a little better but still shredded certain sections. It is so weird. It is almost like some varieties of the rye grass are shredding and some aren't. It is not even shredding all over, just certain sections. Any experience with new rye grass shredding compared to old rye grass?

 

Has the JD ever cut well or have you always needed light contact? The reel should cut paper when properly set up. I find a two paper strip test is better. The top strip gets cut and the bottom folded over or only partially cut. I would check the reel to see if there is any relief grind left. Also check the bedknife to make sure it isn't worn out. If either is the case, you need a new grind on the reel, a new bedknife, or both.

 

The weird thing is, except for these sections on my new ryegrass it cuts great. Back yard and side yard it cuts great, and even other areas on the front it cuts great. It is just these certain areas on the front that it shreds. And these are areas I overseeded a second time when planting in the fall.

 

The view I get is if my scissors are supposed to cut paper, it is a failure if it can only cut some (thin) paper and not thick paper. It is not like I’m trying to cut cardboard.
*Replace “scissors” with “mower” and “paper” with “grass”.

obviously something is wrong and I would expect grass to not be tougher than the metal parts in the mower. I am on board with lack of sharpness (or my personal experience, metal flexing for some reason).

 

I can assure you there is no "metal flexing" going on with that mower.

 

Perhaps I used the wrong word. What I meant is my guess is some adjustable part is off or not tightened down enough which could introduce movement when cutting thick grass.

I briefly have reviewed the link g-man posted in #9 (John Deere reel mower shredding new grass on hill) and it contains good information on how reel mowers work and are adjusted. I know it has been posted things have been checked and tightened down; but that probably is while testing paper with no load.

I am no expert in this area - my thoughts are just from general troubleshooting and problem solving methods. It reminds me of Occam’s Razor or a Sherlock Holmes quote, “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”? I personally like problems like this - if it were in my possession I might be trying some more tests and measurements on various parts to try to solve it.

I truly hope to see the OP figure this one out and share the “light bulb” moment.

 

Perhaps I used the wrong word. What I meant is my guess is some adjustable part is off or not tightened down enough which could introduce movement when cutting thick grass.

I briefly have reviewed the link g-man posted in #9 (John Deere reel mower shredding new grass on hill) and it contains good information on how reel mowers work and are adjusted. I know it has been posted things have been checked and tightened down; but that probably is while testing paper with no load.

I am no expert in this area - my thoughts are just from general troubleshooting and problem solving methods. It reminds me of Occam’s Razor or a Sherlock Holmes quote, “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”? I personally like problems like this - if it were in my possession I might be trying some more tests and measurements on various parts to try to solve it.

I truly hope to see the OP figure this one out and share the “light bulb” moment.

Oh I will update for sure when it is figured out. I'm narrowing in on sharpness of reel and bedknife and specific relationship to the new grass that was overseeded, maybe to heavily. It is definitely not related to the slope.

 

Post a video of you cutting paper to make sure it's being done correctly. You should be able to cut paper and then back off the reel to bedknife contact just a tiny bit to make it perfect.

 

I've already stated that it cuts paper, but only while the reel is in contact with the bedknife. I've also already stated that when I back it off to a more appropriate "looseness" as JD specifies it will not cut. That's why I'm leaning to reel and bedknife need more work than just backlapping.

 

It won't cut grass when you back the reel off or it won't cut paper? Have you tried cutting your grass with it tighter?

 

It won't cut paper when I back it off. And if it doesn't cut paper I'm not going to run it on my grass. So I have it tight enough to cut paper and I'm cutting my grass with that tension. . . . and that is where it is cutting all the grass just fine except for that area being discussed.

 

@Hiresdk - Did you get a chance to check the PDF link g-man posted? Besides general information, it had some info about issues with various parts like warped reels, rifling, spacing, angles, and distances set for the various parts, etc.

 

Yes I did. Short answer though is this….. spec from John Deere is to have a tiny gap between reel and bedknife and then cut paper. I can’t do that so I’m going to have it sharpened. But there was s still something clearly going on with this new grass too.

 

Try mowing it with the reel backed off just a little bit after cutting paper. At this point you have to try everything before you spend a bunch of money to get it ground.

 

True. You are correct. At this point I’m trying and questioning everything including the grass itself. Thanks

 

Have you inquired anywhere for a grind? We can speculate all day long about grass type, thickness/thinness, angles and distances, or flimsy metal on a commercial greensmower. The bottom line is you have to rule out the mower and the only way to be sure is to get the reel and bedknife ground.

 

Yes. Two weeks at a good pro shop that can handle this high end greens mower. Rather than drop it off I got my spot in line last week. Hopefully it will be worked on next week.

 

Did you get it figured out without taking it in for a sharpening?

 

Not yet. Been a bit busy. I may work on it tonight. So far I have backlapped and that didn't do it. Next I will back the reel off just a bit after cutting paper, but at this point I'm skeptical it will work because I fear it is just too dull. I'm also honing in on a different issue. The majority of the shredded grass that is shredding is over a stump I ground down last fall before reno. I'm learning now that that buried tree is sucking Nitrogen out of the soil and keeping that grass from maturing and possibly leaving it more prone to shred, less margin for a dull blade, so I think I have that going on too.

 

I'm kind of obsessing about this trying to figure it out while I wait for my greens mower to be sharpened. I've taken my cheap manual push reel mower over it and it seems to be doing better, but it doesn't mow as low and I have PGR on this so it is taking a while for the shredded grass to grow out to know for sure. I was looking more closely at it last night and it appears that the shreaded grass is on some crowned high spots or right next to some high spots.

Is it possible this is shredding because of that? Maybe the front roller comes off the ground a little bit because of the momentum and change in plane or possibly digs in too much and causes this? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

I was experiencing much of the same issue you have going on. Shredded on what appeared to be only new PRG areas from fall over seeding.

I gave the mower a good backlapping and raised my HOC from 0.50 to 0.75 and have been mowing more often. Everything seems good now.

I wonder if I was cutting too short and the reel was bogging down in taller thick areas of grass, being overwhelmed and just slapping the grass blades instead of cutting them.

 

I was experiencing much of the same issue you have going on. Shredded on what appeared to be only new PRG areas from fall over seeding.

I gave the mower a good backlapping and raised my HOC from 0.50 to 0.75 and have been mowing more often. Everything seems good now.

I wonder if I was cutting too short and the reel was bogging down in taller thick areas of grass, being overwhelmed and just slapping the grass blades instead of cutting them.

Hmmm interesting. I'll try going taller cut