Stop giving your neighbor chemicals and tell him to hire a service.

 

On the brighter side you will not have any weed pressure from the neighbor as he probably won't have anything growing for a while.

According to the label Simazine is suppose to go down 1 qt/acre for hybrid bermuda and no more than 2 qts/year. He put double the recommended amount for a year.

Is the grass dormant?
Please keep us updated. Can you post some before/after pics?

 

OMG! I would never give him MSMA after he did that with the pre-ems. You know he is going to put the whole thing down and sterilize the whole block. When my neighbors asks for chemical help I mix it for them in their sprayer. That way the only way they can mess it up is to spill it. I also have one of "those neighbors" that I just spray it for them. Some people have no business spraying -cides.

 

I know, I feel uneasy about it. I told him specific instructions on how I apply it and to do the same thing, both verbally and in a text chat. I think his thought process is "more is better" despite my warnings not to do that with commercial chemicals. I had no idea of what he did until he was at my house to get the MSMA. At that point it was too late. I guess all I can do now is just pray that he takes my advice and uses it sparingly. I just hope he didn't smoke his lawn.

 

On the brighter side you will not have any weed pressure from the neighbor as he probably won't have anything growing for a while.

According to the label Simazine is suppose to go down 1 qt/acre for hybrid bermuda and no more than 2 qts/year. He put double the recommended amount for a year.

Is the grass dormant?
Please keep us updated. Can you post some before/after pics?

Yes, the grass is still dormant. Here is the before and after photos. No MSMA involved (yet). This was the effect of simazine and dithiopyr. When I first saw the pics, was before I knew what he did. I was thinking, WOW, I've never seen simazine have that dramatic of an effect on POA. Now I know why. I haven't had a need for any weed killer in my yard this winter at all. I was planning on giving him specticle flo later on in the year for fall, plus more simazine to put down with specticle, but I might have to rethink that strategy. We'll see if he can behave himself with the MSMA.

 

Stop supplying people who do not understand what they are applying. At the very least, don't give them the ability to over apply by orders of magnitude.

Please consider protecting our hobby.

 

Stop supplying people who do not understand what they are applying. At the very least, don't give them the ability to over apply by orders of magnitude.

Please consider protecting our hobby.

I agree, it was a mistake. Hindsight is 20/20. I usually split pre emergent and other chemicals with some other neighbors to keep the costs down and the herbicides fresh and we all seem to do the right thing. Except this one guy. Was the first time I've gave him any. I just didn't know. I suppose he could have just bought everything off the internet. At least he doesn't have a 4 pack of Dithiopyr and 2.5 gallons of simazine in his possession if you're looking for a bright side (if there is any).

 

What I really would like to know if anyone has a guess, is this guy's yard smoked. Can he expect it to survive and green up next month with everyone else's yard. If it will survive are there any impediments if it will survive (like thinning, etc).

 

Stop supplying people who do not understand what they are applying. At the very least, don't give them the ability to over apply by orders of magnitude.

Please consider protecting our hobby.

I agree, it was a mistake. Hindsight is 20/20. I usually split pre emergent and other chemicals with some other neighbors to keep the costs down and the herbicides fresh and we all seem to do the right thing. Except this one guy. Was the first time I've gave him any. I just didn't know. I suppose he could have just bought everything off the internet. At least he doesn't have a 4 pack of Dithiopyr and 2.5 gallons of simazine in his possession if you're looking for a bright side (if there is any).

The bright side might be that he's figured out how to kill Bermuda in one app. :lol:

 

He applied at over 3x the max annual limit for Simazine. I wouldn't bet on anything completely eradicating Bermuda, but I think there will be dead patches and the rest will be very slow to green up.

I would do whatever you can to get the MSMA back. That product is not labeled for residential use. This is especially problematic if he makes another bad application. Limits and restrictions are placed on the use of these products for turf health and/or environmental impact. Knowing that he is incapable of making a decent application I would not risk it by giving him another shot.

Dithiopyr is a root-pruning Pre-M, so overapplication will only make the other issues worse.

I don't know exactly what is going to happen, but the lawn is probably going to look terrible.

 

Yah, I hope not. Really hope not. I guess I'll let everyone know in a month or so what the fall out actually is by doubling down on these two.

I think the Dithiopyr and Simazine went down about 3 weeks ago, was the same weekend I put mine down. We had several days when the soil temps were in the very low 50's. We've also had some gully washers the next week after the application (can't predict nature). Maybe some washed away (even better for the environment, I know right).

I'm not 100% sure he put down all of the dithiopyr. I had a hard time understanding exactly what he was saying, but the water dissolvable bag was either laying on the ground or a table and it got wet and turned into some kind of a slime or thin batter consistency. When he saw it was melted, it basically used his bare hands and scooped as much of the dithiopyr into the sprayer as he could. So a possibility he didn't get all of it.

 

@obelix3619 Honestly you should be seeing green starting to pop up by now. We have up to 50% greening in some areas of bermuda fairways. In Atlanta you should see green by now, if you don't that's a bad sign.

 

@obelix3619 Honestly you should be seeing green starting to pop up by now. We have up to 50% greening in some areas of bermuda fairways. In Atlanta you should see green by now, if you don't that's a bad sign.

Yah, mine is mostly dethatched. It's starting to green up already. (picture below). Most of my neighbors including this guy have heavy thatch and over growth from the last summer. I look at other neighbors yards, including his and can't see any signs yet except for stems right at the ground of green up.

Pic of my lawn. Had a sink hole I filled in last summer, will sod that and the old circular garden spot you see towards the back. Didn't spray those areas with any PreM this year.

 

The bright side might be that he's figured out how to kill Bermuda in one app. :lol:

LOL :lol:

I expect the bermuda to survive. We're going to find out together, I suppose.

 

I refer to labels almost every time I spray. I print the section of the label and circle the rate amount for anyone I give chemical. In addition, I usually write on the bottle the rate per gallon or 1000 sq ft with a sharpie.

I have a neighbor that I only give 1 application amount. Good to help your neighbor as it will make your street area a bit nicer.

 

I refer to labels almost every time I spray. I print the section of the label and circle the rate amount for anyone I give chemical. In addition, I usually write on the bottle the rate per gallon or 1000 sq ft with a sharpie.

I have a neighbor that I only give 1 application amount. Good to help your neighbor as it will make your street area a bit nicer.

That's what actually spurred the entire thing. Lawns in a deed restricted community starting to look bad. HOA isn't doing anything about it. I offered on the neighborhood facebook page to split herbicides with anyone who needed them and give them help. Several people took me up including this guy. The rest of the neighbors seem to be chill and applying as directed. This one guy just went on full tilt, and I believe it was a "more is better" thought process. His yard was really bad and he was desperate. I told him when I gave it to him that we'd work together over the next year by deploying the PreM at the right time and using post emergent during the summer and by next year he should have much improvement. I don't know of any other excuse other than just desperate and though if the right amount was good, then all of it would be better. Just glad I didn't give him a gallon. I just hope he doesn't go on tilt with the MSMA, that would certainly hurt his yard badly if it survives this bad application. I think he will use the MSMA as soon as he can and thursday we should be over the rain and at 80is again. I'll ping him a week later after I see it start to kill the rest of the POA and find out how much he used.

 

Maybe I am just an optimist but I think by July 4th with proper water and mowing you will not be able to tell he doesn't follow directions. Will he water and mow properly is highly unlikely tho. I find it hard to believe there isn't some lawn care nut over in the cool season side who hasn't tried some crazy s#$% like this to kill a patch of Bermuda to find it grow back stronger

 

I'm sure the OP has figured this out by now but never give anyone any chemicals, no matter how good your instructions were, and expect them to apply it correctly...homeowners are clueless and that is why Lowes and Home Depot make a killing on "weed and feeds" and other ridiculous items they sell

 

Would cooler weather and grass being dormant help reduce the negative effect on the Bermuda grass?

 

I'm sure the OP has figured this out by now but never give anyone any chemicals, no matter how good your instructions were, and expect them to apply it correctly...homeowners are clueless and that is why Lowes and Home Depot make a killing on "weed and feeds" and other ridiculous items they sell

That's the part I really don't understand. You give someone the chemical, tell them to measure out X oz for the yard and all they really have to do is spray. It doesn't seem all that hard to do, or easy to screw up. I'm a bit boggled by this guy to be honest. We all have the same size yards so it's mostly the same within a few thousand sq ft.

 

That's the part I really don't understand...

What I really don't understand is why someone would give someone an herbicide that isn't labeled for use on home lawns to spray on a home lawn - and then talk about it on the internet. Please think before you post. :|

 

That's the part I really don't understand...

What I really don't understand is why someone would give someone an herbicide that isn't labeled for use on home lawns to spray on a home lawn - and then talk about it on the internet. Please think before you post. :|

The stuff I have is before the label changed. Which as far as I know can still be used until gone.

 

Would cooler weather and grass being dormant help reduce the negative effect on the Bermuda grass?

Not with the products and the amounts he put down. When the weather warms up his yard is going to be dirt. Hopefully it won't wash down to neighboring yards, shrubs, and trees.

 

[/quote]

Lend him a pressure washer

 

Stop supplying people who do not understand what they are applying. At the very least, don't give them the ability to over apply by orders of magnitude.

Please consider protecting our hobby.

I agree. Negligence is not just the final users fault in some cases. Over applying, improper use, environmental or even health issues pop up, and all of a sudden people start asking why and what about applications. This is why things get more expensive, harder to find, and eventually banned or controlled to the point we can't use them.

Gotta be a good steward, and for that reason I've only ever given a single dose based on an area, and never shared a "high" dose, because people don't think sometimes.