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@ktgrok, Wow, thank you for all of that! This may be tricky and I may decide against it, but I intend to take an organic approach to soil development and fertilization. I also mean to use herbicides sparingly, but I don't oppose their use. So I will try to be strategic in what I use, when, and where. I may have to figure some of that out as I go!

I just looked into the Earthwise 7 blade and it does look like some cost savings may be in order! Would a 7 blade still be okay at 1", or would more blades be needed at that height?

@Chocolate Lab, thanks for the words of encouragement! I hope this time next year I'll have made a ton of progress. Every house will have a new lawn, so I won't be playing catch-up.

@HungrySoutherner, I thought about just asking the builder not to to seed unless it's the same bermuda as the front (I have no idea what either will be). Then I could sod/seed/sprig at a later date. I do want a usable back yard next Spring, though . . . how long would sprigging take to establish?

 

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So the builder would be seeding the back? Not sure I'd like that as I'm guessing he'll use the cheapest common seed possible... or maybe you could let him do it and pay a little extra for the seed you want. (Maybe a better idea anyway to let him do the work.)

I will stand up for seeding, though. I had a nice looking lawn that was getting compliments in about five weeks, and that's with almost zero rain (maybe 0.2" total in six weeks). You're in a much wetter area so I think it would do even better there. I read where some say seeding is so difficult, but that hasn't been my experience. The hardest part is the initial ground prep (which you'd have to do anyway for sprigging, right?) and making sure your irrigation is automated so you don't accidentally let things get dry. But then you pretty much let nature take its course.

BTW -- I'm with you on going as organic as possible and keeping the chemicals to a minimum. That's what I've done, too.

I have seeded new lawns a few times before (TTTF, though) and don't mind the process at all. So that part doesn't concern me. I'm more concerned about timing (house will be complete in December, so the back will be bare!) and what is seeded in the back vs sodded in the front. I'm just not sure I want common bermuda in the back if I have a hybrid in the front. I'd rather them leave it to me if that's the plan. When the time gets closer I will talk to the builder about it and find out what they intend to install.

As for organic-- I may be picking your brain on that in the future. I have to figure out what's even available around here first.

 

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Gotcha. I think organic fertilizer is great, just more expensive per pound of nitrogen. But a great choice. Also, for insects Spinosad is organic and very safe and worked wonders on my armyworms. It is nice because it kills the armyworms but not the things like spiders that eat armyworms. There are also biological fungicides that you can use as a preventative, but may not be enough if you need a curative application.

I'll not get too deeply into the merits of organic lawncare, as there is another forum for that, but I will say that doing things that way makes you change the whole way you think about fertilizing. For example, I never really think about "pounds of nitrogen" and focus more on the health of the soil and its inhabitants. Which was great for TTTF and worked beautifully . . . and I hope that's still the case for bermuda. I do know that it's a hungry beast!

Depending on conditions and the amount of sprigs you put out you'll be mowing in 27-30 days, if you do the correct prep work you'll have a complete lawn in ~50 days. The amount of water for sprigs and seed are about the same, so if you can't irrigate for seed, you can't for sprigs. The difference is coverage....you'll have a fuller/dense lawn faster with sprigs vs seed, and won't have all the issues that comes from trying to seed bermuda. Plus it will match the bermuda so you have in the front so you don't have to worry about growing together 2 types of bermuda. @movingshrub has a great thread on sprigging

Interesting. I'll do more reading about that and see if it becomes a good option once I know what kind of sod I'm getting.

 

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Just keep in mind that seeding bermuda is not like seeding TTTF, the germination is much slower, and then there is a growth stall usually with bermuda seed where it sits and does absolutely nothing before it takes off. Your seeding window is much different for bermuda too. You need it to be hot for the plant to come up and take off so most people are doing seeding end of May - July when the bermuda is in peak season. Which means you will need lots of water to keep it from drying out. How big is the back yard area you will be working with?

Only about 2,000 sq ft, maybe less, and nearly a square. I think it'd be pretty easy to keep it wet. I always seeded TTTF earlier than most (labor day or so) and it was still very hot and dry, so I'm hoping it wouldn't be too much harder.

But the timing is tough. I'll have a toddler running around and I'd love to have a back yard for him, but if May is the earliest for seeding then we'd go pretty much the whole spring and summer without a back yard. It's making me think I might be better off cutting plugs from sod and letting it fill in. That might be a lot more expensive but hopefully it would be a faster way to get a yard.

 

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I had nearly a full lawn in 5 weeks from seed.

How much foot traffic were you comfortable with at that point? That would put us around mid-June.

 

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Just keep in mind @ktgrok is in Florida and you're in TN.

:thumbup: Just exploring my options. Appreciate all the info!

 

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I just got confirmation that the sod will be 419. My question: if I were to seed the back with an improved/modified common variety, such as Arden/Blackjack/etc., how different should I expect the appearance to be?

Just wondering how much of a problem it is if one creeps into the other in that scenario.

 

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I've read Arden 15/Princess 77 is supposed to be the closest visual match for Tifway...and is supposed to be at least as good. No idea how correct that info is. I have near full coverage with my Arden 15 at 30 days from seed. I don't think sprigs will be any faster. It still needs probably another month to fully thicken up but it's sending stolons like crazy so it may be sooner. I went with A15 because of the scores and the quick germination (4 days).

Thanks. I saw the same comments about a blend called La Prima. I'll just have to look at sod and seed prices and see how things look.

 

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You can check out my Lawn Journal, but I can tell you from my experience seeded common is not going to match in color or texture and will compete for space and infect each other where they meet. I've spent this summer trying different techniques to remove common from my hybrid 419 and it aint easy or fun. Blackjack bermuda won't even be close in texture or color its very lime green. You will also have to deal with the fact that the common will grow at a different rate than the hybrid. If you ever play with growth regulating your bermuda it will only amplify that.

Some of them seem to be much darker, so I'm not closing the door on the idea. At any rate our neighbors will likely have some kind of common bermuda in the back, and our back will only connect in a tiny strip to our front anyway. So some common invasion is inevitable, and it's as likely to be from the neighbors as from us. So I guess I'm not super worried about it but I'd love for them to be the same or similar.

 

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@mbaisley, great stuff! Thanks for the input. I used to grow TTTF in the Knoxville area, and I agree with the guy at Mayo. You'll never kill the bermuda.

As far as seed goes, I plan to order from Hogan if I can't find it locally, and Arden 15, Yukon, LaPrima, and Monaco are all options there. If one of those doesn't look completely awful next to 419 then I'll go with it if I go the seeding route.

It looks like I could get 419 sod for ~$500 in May/June or $700 in December, delivered. December would be nice because that's when the front goes down, but I'm not sure it's worth an extra $200. Decisions, decisions!

Another question: How much difference in growth rate is there between a hybrid like 419 and a seeded variety? Is it drastic?

 

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They will definitely grow at different rates. Tifway generally is going to be a shade or 2 darker than seeded variety, maybe close to Arden in texture. The other varieties are going to be lighter in color than the 419.

Okay. They will meet in a strip just 3-5 feet wide, so that will be the only place to really see them next to each other. And really, they may both struggle there-- it will get more shade since it's between houses. So it may be alright. In the end I think this choice mostly comes down to cost vs. convenience.

Thanks for all of your help, @HungrySoutherner.

 

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So I've pretty much decided to wait til May/June to either sod or seed the back. What are the board's thoughts on seeding annual ryegrass in early spring to give us a temporary lawn and reduce weed pressure til it's bermuda time in June? If I did that, could I seed bermuda straight into the still-alive rye or would I need to kill it? I assume the rye would be dead by sometime in July anyway.

 

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Sounds like a good plan. You'll have a nice yard for the fall, winter and early spring.

Although I think you'll definitely want to kill the rye before you seed bermuda (if you seed). That rye will hang on longer than you might think ... especially if it gets a little shade in the afternoon.

Plus if it's like the annual rye I've sowed every year, you'll get some weeds with it too.

I still vote for sodding it based on your stated goals.

Thanks for the feedback. The rye will get full sun, so I'm thinking it'll burn out a little quicker. Since it's just in the back I may try to just let it die out, but we'll see how things look in May.

I am torn about sod vs. seed based on cost. It may just depend on what my better half wants to do.

 

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All-- another question after talking to the builder today. He said that there would be no topsoil put down in the back if we seed, so it would just be on top of the native soil that is there. He was encouraging us to get the back sodded, but for him to do it will cost us over $2k. (Turns out, we'll need more like 5 pallets of 419). I know "topsoil" is a term without much real meaning, so I'm trying to figure out of that makes much difference.

Any thoughts? I know annual rye is good for soil building, so I'm inclined to still seed that in early spring and to work on the soil over time by topdressing. I just don't know that I can stomach the $2k when I know we could sod it ourselves for less than half that, or seed it for 10% of that.

 

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Skip the annual rye, I hated how much mowing I had to do all winter. I only did it because I didn't have any choice for erosion control last winter and I started bermuda seed so late. However, the dead rye could have been a plus come May with extra organic material in the soil, but I'll never put it down again.

This is where we will be too. We won't have another choice over the winter, so annual rye is our best bet. I'm hoping the extra organic material will help with the rough soil, too. But I haven't mowed in a few years, so I won't mind mowing this Spring before the bermuda greens up. I just hope I can get rye germination in early March.

I'd still seed and use that $1700 you'd save on something else fun (or necessary).

This is where I'm leaning. I should be able to get the seed I need for $100.

It also turns out that our front and back yards won't connect at all-- there will be beds with river rock completely separating front from back. So I don't have to worry about contact between the 419 and whatever I seed/sod in the back.