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Bermudagrass, 3.75 acres, Arkansas
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Winter overseeding a bermudagrass lawn with perennial ryegrass (PRG) is something that has always piqued my interest, so now that I have a proper irrigation system I have decided to give it a shot. Not wanting to bite off more than I can chew, I decided my 2,000 ft2 back yard would be a nice place to experiment this year... that way if it turns into an epic failure I will be the only one who has to look at it :D. I will also be able to compare the spring transition to my non-overseeded front lawn.

The Plan

I started by reading everything I could get my hands on about the process, and I also reached out to a local turfgrass science professor to get any regional-specific advice he had. Turns out he overseeds his own lawn with PRG each fall, and had this to offer:

  • Seed in late September at a rate of about 15lbs per thousand (more on this below).
  • Use a drop spreader in multiple directions to ensure uniform coverage, then go over the lawn lightly with a leaf rake to knock the seed down to the soil surface.
  • After seeding it is extremely important to keep the surface soil moist. Irrigate 0.1" mid morning and again mid afternoon.
  • Once the seed has germinated (usually 4-7 days) you can irrigate once a day, but heavier (0.15 - 0.2").
  • Apply 2 lbs of N to the lawn 2-4 weeks after germination and you will be all set.

One of the things that concerned me was the spring transition back to bermuda, but he said it would be a snap if I spray the PRG with MSM herbicide once the bermuda is greening up in the spring. He said the MSM is slow acting, so the transition is gradual, and would help me avoid a completely brown lawn. I think Celsius and/or Certainty would probably work just as well, but I have some time to make that decision.

The Seed

For seed I went with Champion GQ from Seed Research of Oregon. It's easy to get lost in all the different varieties/blends available, so I just went with this because it appeared to be a decent choice for overseeding bermuda and it was on sale at Hancock Seed. If I was establishing a new cool season lawn, I probably would have spent more time on this, but I will just be killing it in the spring. :lol:


The recommended winter overseed rates on the Champion GQ specification sheet are as follows - note that these rates are significantly higher than the rates for establishing a new cool season lawn:

  • Golf greens: 30 lbs per thousand
  • Golf fairways and tees: 10-16 lbs per thousand
  • Sports fields and golf roughs: 6-10 lbs per thousand

These tiered rates appear to be based on density requirements - the lower the HOC, the more density you need. I plan to mow the PRG around 0.75", so I will be using the overseed rate for golf tees and fairways. I will adjust my HOC as necessary, but my thought is if my dormant bermuda is around 0.5", I will want to mow the PRG a little higher to drown out the brown grass.

After reading Pete's Renovation thread, I decided to order a packet of Soil Moist Seed Coat. I'm not overly concerned about keeping the ground moist in the small area I'm working with, but decided it would be cheap insurance. :thumbup:

The Prep

Prior to overseeding, I plan to do a light verticut and slightly reduce my HOC in an effort to open up the dense bermuda canopy a little. I think this will make it a little easier get the seed in contact with the ground. Alternatively, I read that this is also a good time to core aerate if you wanted to.

Being a big fan of Plant Growth Regulator (PGR) and its many benefits, I had noticed the label specifically addresses using it to slow bermuda growth prior to overseeding in the fall to enhance establishment of the cool season grass, so I will definitely be timing my upcoming PGR applications accordingly:


I will also not be making any additional fertilizer apps to the back yard before overseeding, and most importantly NO fall pre-emergent app, as it would prevent germination of the PRG.

The Calendar

I have some scheduling conflicts in late September that will require me to be away from home, and I want to make sure I am close during the twice a day watering period, so depending on the rain forecast my tentative plan is to overseed sometime between Sept 16-20. The average highs/lows on those dates for my location are 84°/61°F. If that doesn't work out, I will likely defer to the window of Sept 30 - Oct 3. Average highs/lows on those dates look more like 80°/56°F.

I have about month to work out the final details, but I'm really excited to see how this goes! With any luck, it won't just be the Aussies posting pictures of their warm season lawns on TLF this winter! :thumbup:
 

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Bermudagrass, 3.75 acres, Arkansas
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
wardconnor said:
Awesome.....Who would have thought? I can not wait to watch this happen. Please be sure to publicly document this for our eager eyes.
^^^ This guy's lawn is what really pushed me over the edge to try this. :thumbup:

Bunnysarefat said:
Alright, awesome. Paint your front lawn and ask your neighbors which one looks better :lol:
That's not a bad idea. I've also been tempted to try the Green Lawnger. I think it would be less work.
 

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So if you're not happy with the results and don't want to do it again the following winter, will the MSM completly kill the PRG or will it try to creep back the next season?
 

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Bermudagrass, 3.75 acres, Arkansas
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bunnysarefat said:
So if you're not happy with the results and don't want to do it again the following winter, will the MSM completly kill the PRG or will it try to creep back the next season?
It should knock it out like any other grassy weed (no offense wardconnor). :lol:

But yeah, I would hope for a complete kill in the spring whether I decide to overseed again or not.
 

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5.6ksqft Bewitched KBG in Fishers, IN
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What is going on?? Ward wants a bermuda looking lawn in Utah and Ware wants to stripe a cool season lawn in Arkansas. Couldn't you two just trade houses?

I'm interested in how this will look. Any idea on the hoc after germination?
 

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Bermudagrass, 3.75 acres, Arkansas
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
g-man said:
What is going on?? Ward wants a bermuda looking lawn in Utah and Ware wants to stripe a cool season lawn in Arkansas. Couldn't you two just trade houses?

I'm interested in how this will look. Any idea on the hoc after germination?
Only on TLF... :lol:

My bermuda HOC is 1/2", so I'm thinking I'll need to cut the PRG in the 5/8 - 3/4" range to drown out the bermuda a little.
 

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Bewitched KBG (38k sqft)
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Subscribed! Can't wait to see the project! Although I think Ware will love the way PRG stripes so much, he will sell his house, move north, and join the "Cool" side!
 

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Pete1313 said:
Subscribed! Can't wait to see the project! Although I think Ware will love the way PRG stripes so much, he will sell his house, move north, and join the "Cool" side!
^^^What he said.

Ware.... You my friend are on a slippery slope there. Your about to embark on something possibly very additive... Remember when you did yourfirst sand leveling project? or when you acquired your first reel mower? You were hooked right away.

I'm afraid to say that you are heading down that same path.
 

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Ware said:
Bunnysarefat said:
So if you're not happy with the results and don't want to do it again the following winter, will the MSM completly kill the PRG or will it try to creep back the next season?
It should knock it out like any other grassy weed (no offense wardconnor). :lol:

But yeah, I would hope for a complete kill in the spring whether I decide to overseed again or not.
Awesome thread!! should be fun to follow. I'd be surprised if the perennial rye came back even without the use of MSM, unless you get a super mild summer next year. I believe the MSM is more to help him transition. Without it, the rye wouldn't die off until June. At least in houston, July, August, and September heat is enough to completely wipe it out.
 

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Ware said:
It should knock it out like any other grassy weed (no offense wardconnor). :lol:
That's it.... I'm offended. Maybe you could punish me for taking offense by restricting me from using the Private Message feature on TLF?

Believe me.... I deal with my fair share if nuisance grassy weeds.
 

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Bermudagrass, 3.75 acres, Arkansas
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Jericho574 said:
What are you expecting in terms of water requirements once fully germinated?
I'm not sure, but we usually see a decent amount rainfall during those months...

  • Oct - 4.32"
  • Nov - 4.44"
  • Dec - 3.31"
  • Jan - 2.81"
  • Feb - 2.76"
  • Mar - 3.85"
 
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