Treating Bermuda Infestation in Summer?

18175 Views 103 Replies 10 Participants Last post by gene_stl, Jul 11, 2018

Hoosier

Discussion Starter · Jun 18, 2018

My TTTF lawn has recently been invaded by Bermuda - fescue is taking a beating with the hot/dry weather, and at this point, I'm just trying to keep it alive through August. Next door neighbor has Bermuda, and blows his clippings into my lawn, so that certainly doesn't help, but I'm not going to have that conversation with him, as the relationship isn't great. I may run a mulch bed along that property line in the near future, but that aside for now...

In the spring, I sprayed Ornamec 170 along that property line a few times, 30 days apart, and that seems to be keeping the Bermuda at bay in that area, but at the expense of really stressing the fescue. Last treatment was late May, but due to the weather, I'm hesitant to apply any more.

I'm now seeing Bermuda pop up all over my lawn, and plan to rotate Ornamec/Triclopyr and Tenacity/Triclopyr (Pylex isn't an option for me at $450+ per bottle) every 30 days in the Fall/Spring, but it stresses me out to think that, left untreated, the Bermuda is going to continue spreading for the next couple months, leaving me with an even bigger infestation to try to get rid of starting in the fall.

I mow at 4 inches, but haven't mowed for over a week, and plan to let it go even more to get through the next couple months, along with hopefully shading out the Bermuda.

I'm thinking my 2 option are (both involve repair/overseeding in the fall):
1) Let it go until I can start treatments again, which means the Bermuda will spread even more over the next couple months, but the fescue won't take any more abuse than it already is from the weather
2) Resume monthly treatments to keep Bermuda from spreading further, knowing I'll probably kill the fescue in some areas in the process, maybe making it even easier for the Bermuda to spread when it recovers

Any thoughts on the best course of action? A complete kill isn't going to be an option for me in the fall, due to budget and the time commitment that will require.

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gene_stl

· #5 · Jun 18, 2018

My first two broadcast applications(Tenacity and Quinclorac) which I mainly intended to control crabgrass killed a couple of large areas of bermuda grass that I had not even noticed were there. I would remind everyone too that Pylex is also available as Armezon.

https://feedersgrain.com/search?q=armezon

This might be more feasible. Even Tenacity killed it dead in two applications at least in my lawn. And in some places where I may have only got it once it lit it up.

I do have a jug of Glyphosate for weeds and invasive honeysuckle but I just can' t bring myself to use it on my grass. I was able to murder a bunch of dallis grass and got a bunch of bermuda too. Since Ornamec is one of the agents recommended for dallis also I put a short dose of it in my dallis murder juice. It so far has not killed my kbg.

Here right now it is too hot to put anything on the lawn. I would consider eradicating areas where the bermuda is 100%. But right now I ain't goin outside. But between Pylex , Tenacity and Ornamec it seems like you could get rid of it without killing your lawn. Especially if you have tttf which Ornamec is labeled for. I do intend to go after the bermuda too because it makes my lawn look awful in the winter. I actually don't mind the way it looks while green. But like zoysia we are too far north here in st. louis.

I agree you should keep hammering it with the above mentioned agent. I notice in one of the turf management books I downloaded that Triclopyr is supposed to prevent bleaching. It doesn't say how this happens. Since you have tttf I would hit it hard with Ornamec after lighting it up with Tenacity.

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gene_stl

· #9 · Jun 19, 2018

Armezon is also 29.7 topramezone. It is only labeled for ag use.

@ForsheeMS
I have only sprayed Ornamec twice. Tenacity two apps has killed and bleached all kinds of stuff in the lawn and helped me notice them. I used short rates of Ornamec since it isn't labeled for kbg. I am going to go full rate on the 100% stands of bermuda. I am going to do it while it is hot and the bermuda is alive. Fertilizing it does not sound like a bad idea. I have Ammonium Sulfate on hand but have not yet added it to any spray mixes because getting everything into the mix is enough trouble with multiple agents, sticker and dye. Even with power sprayers that's a lot of work. :evil:

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gene_stl

· #11 · Jun 19, 2018

I used about a one third rate just do add some of its AI because fluazifop is mentioned as being Dallisicidal. I knew I was taking a risk. It did not seem to harm the grass. The sulfentrazone which was also in the first mix seems to have hurt and bleached more the second time (no ornamec and no MSMA because I ran out and no Tenacity because I wanted to know what what going on and what might be doing what) but it had gotten MUCH hotter here. The rate was one third to one half recommended for tttf. The label rate for spot treating tttf is 10 oz for five gallons and I put in three or four fluid oz into five gallons.

I have an iris bed that is infested with ornamental Paspalum that looks like giant dallis grass. I am going to try an over the top spray of Ornamec 170.

Since this morning I went out to look at the results and the sedges are completely toasted. Some of the Dallis grass is just wounded. Very tough stuff. Most of it is deceased though. I think.

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gene_stl

· #13 · Jun 19, 2018

Well don't put Ornamec on your kbg because I got away with it. Though look at my pictures under "killing sedges"
the more gentle two ingredient spray really bleached the lawn. The witches brew did not. But again we had a heat wave after the second spray.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3745&p=69606#p69606

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gene_stl

· #18 · Jun 21, 2018

First off I'd say completely killing bermuda in fescue is impossible. Never stopped me from trying.

As one researches this it becomes clear that killing things like bermuda and dallis and maybe even sedges are life styles. :lol: :lol:

I don't really understand why adding triclopyr results in LESS bleaching but that is what the turf scientists report. I think when you are just starting to beat a plot into submission using multiple agents makes sense and you have to be willing to accept some damage to the desirable turf. At least I am. Now it has cooled down and rained several times. Gonna go out again.
Tenacity and Triclopyr on the bermuda. Sulfentrazone and Sedgehammer on the Sedges (they are mostly isolated so the sulfentrazone won't matter if it burns a little although there is lots of moisture now and predicted cooler temps for a while may recover some of the previous heat stress and drought stress. Some other mix for the dallis.

Interesting Bermuda control factoid. On the Tupersan label there is a short paragraph about bermuda grass stolon control in bentgrass putting greens. Unfortunately Gordon's locks the label pdf so you will need to look at yourself if interested. Tupersan is expensive and is a wettable granule. But it might be worth adding to a bermuda control witches brew. It is gentle and labeled for use on seedlings which it was the original for that. I was thinking of adding it to the dallis juice but it specifically mentions that dallis is not controlled. Then I noticed that it suppresses bermuda spreading. Doesn't kill it but should help with the suppression.

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gene_stl

· #19 · Jun 24, 2018

BERMUDAGRASS SUPPRESSION INTO CREEPING BENTGRASS GREENS: Greens established with creeping bentgrass may be surrounded by
bermudagrass collars and aprons. Mixtures of creeping bentgrass and bermudagrass result in poor putting surfaces. The selectivity of Tupersan
Herbicide can suppress the bermudagrass encroachment without injury to the bentgrass.
Tupersan Herbicide can be applied as a band treatment along the perimeter of the greens to suppress the stolon growth of the bermudagrass.
Use ½ - 1 pound of Tupersan Herbicide per 1,000 sq. ft. and apply in a 8 - 12 inch band with a single nozzle sprayer. Schedule the initial application
during March or April and continue with subsequent applications at the same application rate at 4 - 5 week intervals.

I managed to unlock the pdf. even though it's a horrible weed here in St. Louis it does look good and I can see how you could get used to it. It just all turns brown as soon as it gets cold. Same with Zoysia. I am going to light up my bermuda weed with Tenacity and then go after it with Pylex (which I don't have on hand yet) Ornamec spotting and Tupersan to damage the stolons. There is enough of it that the LawnZilla will look very bad.

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gene_stl

· #25 · Jun 28, 2018

Don't you think that the KBG will get lit too?

I am resigned to the fact that my lawn is going to look funny for quite a while. The very sight of Dallis grass raises my blood pressure. Bermuda, not so much, right now, but it looked really awful all last winter. Everything brown. So I want to kill as much as I can before overseeding time.

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gene_stl

· #52 · Jun 29, 2018

Fenoxaprop and Pylex are the next things on my schopping list. I am going to see if the ag guys have it. Wednesday I got a gallon jug of Remedy Triclopyr Butyl Ester. Like Tupersan Triclopyr isn't potent so you have to use a lot. I guess the same applies to Acclaim.

I like the notion above about bad relationships. This is exactly what I am doing. But LawnZilla is just too f big to renovate. I probably have spent enough on herbicides already and there is not the slightest sign of slowdown. (Gallon of Triclopyr=$75)

Armezon topremazone is $406 for 32 oz and has the same concentration as Pylex.

Diquats cousin Paraquat used to be the helicopter sprayed herbicide of choice for the DEA. I think they hoped it would give the potheads cancer and make them die.

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gene_stl

· #55 · Jun 29, 2018

I do stand corrected about paraquat. I had a friend who was a great genius (possibly the best classical guitarist on the planet) who was a heavy pot smoker and in the late seventies when I knew him best he used to rail on and on about paraquat. I was not that involved myself.

My friend did not end well health-wise.

I am in favor of slow and painful death for all grassy weeds. Although I have to admit the first time I went out with my Sprayer Mate with Q4+ with extra quinclorac there was a big prostate grassy weed about a foot wide. It was not quite dead yet a few days after I sprayed. It was too early to be crabgrass. It was probably something perennial or biannual. When my eyes fell onto it I actually felt a nanosecond of pity because it looked so bad. Then I thought, "This shit really works!" :lol:

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gene_stl

· #79 · Jul 2, 2018

Don't forget to try Tupersan to suppress the stolons. I haven't tried it yet but I have a four lb bag of wp right here.
I will report. The weather is only going to peak at 90 tomorrow so I am going to go out and spot some things.

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gene_stl

· #90 · Jul 2, 2018

Thank you social port. I have to admit that my wife and I look at each other frequently and say "what were we thinking ?" when we bought this huge place. But she has been 100% supportive which helps and I have a son at home who is helping too. And we love the place too. It is roomy and nice and a great deal too.

I wanted to go out and spray today and I opened a door and the air was so damp I just thought ewe not going out there. Hope I don't get a bunch of fungus. Of course if I do I will just spray the shit out of it.

:

I never did much spraying before. Used to use granular stuff on relatively much smaller lawns. So I had the experience of fertilizer and weed killer working. LawnZilla already looks a lot better. I want to have all the weedy species deceased by overseed time. And I have spent so much on chemicals and spray gear that I have to "put my mouth where my money is".
Tenacity is so kewl

The main antagonism which moving shrub was thinking of is that when you mix 2,4,D type broadleaf herbicides with grassy ones the grassy herbicides become less effective. The broadleaf is unchanged. (antagonism)

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gene_stl

· #95 · Jul 5, 2018

@social port
There is a lot of research along those lines regarding multiple applications of lower rate for example , but also regarding multiple agents. Somebody posted a paper that I just looked at in the last day or two talking about multiple 1 oz per acre apps of Tenacity vs. fewer higher rate apps. It may be that we are overthinking some of these things. I like to just get out there and play duke nukem. Specially on that warm season weed. :lol: :roll:

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gene_stl

· #104 · Jul 11, 2018

I don't like going out in the heat so my lawn care suffers from intermittentcy during the summer. We had a couple of cooler days here in St. Louis and I went out two days ago and spot sprayed a bunch of glyphosate onto my dallis grass spots. I gave up on trying to finesse it with stuff that is less harmful to the surrounding grass because I had big brown areas that the sulfentrazone killt in the heat with single dallis plants freshly sprouting in the middle even though the originals turned brown and withered too.

While I was out there I hit some of the extensive bermuda invasions. What stimulated this was on my front walk the bermuda there was trying to send stolons over the concrete. Really amazing. I went out to check before going to work about 15 hours later and the dallis all looked terribly sickly , whithered brown green.

The bermuda took a little longer but I glyphosated it along the walk and today it has shrunken away from the walk a bit but the stolons it is sending onto the walk still look pretty good. This is one tough weed.

Today I am going to light the whole front yard up with Tenacity and Quinclorac. Since I didn't get any pre-emergent down I also have a crabgrass problem to hammer.

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