[ABC123]

When the process of building a home starts they always strip off the topsoil and send it off. My problem with this is they bring whatever somebody calls topsoil back for the final grade.

So my question is if I have a sandy loam soil should I ask them to bring in a sandy loam of like 80-90% sand and assume the other 10-20% has a decent OM?

I've got a massive specialty blending plant not far from the house and it services several golf courses so I'd assume they'd have something that would work. Here's a page with some options that they offer. http://www.plaistedcompanies.com/Products/GolfAthletic.aspx

 

[g-man]

That's a great resource to have close by. I would prefer a balanced approach of black dirt and compost. Sand doesnt hold nutrients or water. It is great for leveling, but I would prefer some clay into the mix. Talk to their specialist. He should know what do to in your area.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would second the recommendation that you speak to some soil specialists, theirs and also consult with someone from your state university agronomy program.
Some information that I've picked up over the years from my readings that may be relevant:

The soil placed over existing soil should not consist of finer soil particles as the fine particulates will wash down and plug the pore spaces in the lower soil. This can create a hard pan layer that impedes drainage and rooting.

Percent of OM should not be less than 3%. Common recommendations are 4-6%. Sufficient OM is important for good soil structure, adequate soil moisture retention, increased nutrient holding capacity, aeration and root growth. Peat moss is an excellent source of "non-active" OM, but include it judiciously. However, as always, more isn't better. Too much OM will created soil that holds excessive amounts of water and that are structurally weak.

This information may help you in conversing with the soil specialists:
http://lawr.ucdavis.edu/classes/SSC107/SSC107Syllabus/chapter1-00.pdf

 

[ABC123]

Awesome. Thank you for the advice. I could also take a sample and let the company do the test as they have the on site equipment.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The company likely has test results on hand for %OM, texture (%clay, silt and sand) and pH of the components they use and the mixed products they create. At least for the "black soil" component they use. Ideally, pH should fall between 6 and 7, pH compatibility might also be a consideration.
...or were you meaning having them test the texture of your current soil?

 

[ABC123]

Correct. They should have tests for all the offered products. I'd bring them a core sample of what's existing to make sure it can match up. I'd rather not get too crazy with expensive soil but well see

 

[social port]

I would second the recommendation that you speak to some soil specialists, theirs and also consult with someone from your state university agronomy program.
Some information that I've picked up over the years from my readings that may be relevant:

The soil placed over existing soil should not consist of finer soil particles as the fine particulates will wash down and plug the pore spaces in the lower soil. This can create a hard pan layer that impedes drainage and rooting.

Percent of OM should not be less than 3%. Common recommendations are 4-6%. Sufficient OM is important for good soil structure, adequate soil moisture retention, increased nutrient holding capacity, aeration and root growth. Peat moss is an excellent source of "non-active" OM, but include it judiciously. However, as always, more isn't better. Too much OM will created soil that holds excessive amounts of water and that are structurally weak.

This information may help you in conversing with the soil specialists:
http://lawr.ucdavis.edu/classes/SSC107/SSC107Syllabus/chapter1-00.pdf

Thanks for this great info!
One question regarding soil particles: it makes a lot of sense that finer particles would find their way down to deeper layers and possibly plug things up. But what makes the particles create a barrier or a stopper, if you like, at one particular layer of the lower soil rather than being drawn further down, perhaps even in a random (I.e., non-uniform, non-layered) pattern? In other words, why would the sand collect at the same level in the lower soil?
I'm curious because I've thought about using a light layer of sand on top of my clay soil but haven't for the very reason you mention.

 

[ABC123]

We can blend any combination of materials to meet your individual needs. For instance, create a topdressing sand with fertilizer or humates with a porous ceramic to increase CEC ratio.

Found this sentence on there website and dug into it a little bit, very interesting topic of porous ceramic.

http://profilelibrary.info/Files/Landscape%20Brochure_A003-41208.pdf

http://profilelibrary.info/Files/A000-25450_Const_Remodel%20Broch.pdf

Here's a good one too. https://news.brown.edu/articles/2017/06/nanofibers

 

[Ridgerunner]

One question regarding soil particles: it makes a lot of sense that finer particles would find their way down to deeper layers and possibly plug things up. But what makes the particles create a barrier or a stopper, if you like, at one particular layer of the lower soil rather than being drawn further down, perhaps even in a random (I.e., non-uniform, non-layered) pattern? In other words, why would the sand collect at the same level in the lower soil?
I'm curious because I've thought about using a light layer of sand on top of my clay soil but haven't for the very reason you mention.

That's a good question and a critical observation on your part, social port.
I was sloppy in in the terminology used in an attempt to make my point and it was at the expense of accuracy. I should not have used the term "hard pan" in the sentence "This can create a hard pan layer that impedes drainage and rooting." At most, the sentences should have simply stated that "This can create problems that can interfere with drainage/infiltration"
BTW, to clarify, it is not sand (larger soil particles),but the finer particles of silt and clay that can plug the pores in a coarser soil. As part of my mea culpa, I should also say that turf specialists recommend that a coarser (sandy) soil shouldn't be topdressed over a finer (clay) soil either (it also adversly affects drainage/infiltration). When adding soil, the consensus is that the new soil should be as close to the texture of the existing soil as possible.
I'll see if I have anything in my stored links in support on the topic.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is all that I found in the library that is on point:
http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/hot_topics/2015/06topdressing_your_lawn.html
See paragraph 4 under "Good Practices."

 

[osuturfman]

What is the size (area) of your new lawn?

 

[ABC123]

What is the size (area) of your new lawn?

Very happy to see you here!

It's going to be about 15k of lawn total. main focus would be on the front at around 6-8k sq ft, the back I'm not as concerned about if budget becomes an issue.

End goal is kbg with around 1" hoc.

 

[social port]

One question regarding soil particles: it makes a lot of sense that finer particles would find their way down to deeper layers and possibly plug things up. But what makes the particles create a barrier or a stopper, if you like, at one particular layer of the lower soil rather than being drawn further down, perhaps even in a random (I.e., non-uniform, non-layered) pattern? In other words, why would the sand collect at the same level in the lower soil?
I'm curious because I've thought about using a light layer of sand on top of my clay soil but haven't for the very reason you mention.

That's a good question and a critical observation on your part, social port.
I was sloppy in in the terminology used in an attempt to make my point and it was at the expense of accuracy. I should not have used the term "hard pan" in the sentence "This can create a hard pan layer that impedes drainage and rooting." At most, the sentences should have simply stated that "This can create problems that can interfere with drainage/infiltration"
BTW, to clarify, it is not sand (larger soil particles),but the finer particles of silt and clay that can plug the pores in a coarser soil. As part of my mea culpa, I should also say that turf specialists recommend that a coarser (sandy) soil shouldn't be topdressed over a finer (clay) soil either (it also adversly affects drainage/infiltration). When adding soil, the consensus is that the new soil should be as close to the texture of the existing soil as possible.
I'll see if I have anything in my stored links in support on the topic.

Thank you for the clarification. I seem to recall the Lawn Care Nut making a similar point one time -- that one should always strive to match the native soil when adding soil--but I've noticed that not everyone adheres to this practice. It is interesting to hear about some of the reasons for the recommendation.

 

[social port]

What is the size (area) of your new lawn?

Wow! Big welcome to you!

 

[osuturfman]

Are you looking to do a capped rootzone where you are adding/grading 4-6" of material over a subgrade?

Or

Do you want to amend the topsoil the builder brings back before they finish grade?

 

[coreyndstuff]

Is my math right here re: peat moss amount? For 3600sqft lawn, I need to get 36 cubic ft (60x60x1/8"), or for easy math, 30 cubic ft, ie 10 ~3cuft bricks of peat moss. That's about $125 where I'm at - is that sound right?

 

[g-man]

Is my math right here re: peat moss amount? For 3600sqft lawn, I need to get 36 cubic ft (60x60x1/8"), or for easy math, 30 cubic ft, ie 10 ~3cuft bricks of peat moss. That's about $125 where I'm at - is that sound right?

It depends, what are you trying to do? Also, remember that the 3cuft bricks are compressed peat moss.

 

[ABC123]

Are you looking to do a capped rootzone where you are adding/grading 4-6" of material over a subgrade?

Or

Do you want to amend the topsoil the builder brings back before they finish grade?

I would rather add/grade 4-6in over the subgrade. It's not far from my current residence that has a sandy soil. It would resemble the two tests on the right side, one on the left was near a septic system.

It's been a long time dreaming of actually doing this, can't wait.

 

[coreyndstuff]

Is my math right here re: peat moss amount? For 3600sqft lawn, I need to get 36 cubic ft (60x60x1/8"), or for easy math, 30 cubic ft, ie 10 ~3cuft bricks of peat moss. That's about $125 where I'm at - is that sound right?

It depends, what are you trying to do? Also, remember that the 3cuft bricks are compressed peat moss.

Sorry, overseeding.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is my math right here re: peat moss amount? For 3600sqft lawn, I need to get 36 cubic ft (60x60x1/8"), or for easy math, 30 cubic ft, ie 10 ~3cuft bricks of peat moss. That's about $125 where I'm at - is that sound right?

It depends, what are you trying to do? Also, remember that the 3cuft bricks are compressed peat moss.

Sorry, overseeding.

That's not really the topic here.
You need to convert 1/8" to feet. 1/8"=1/96'. 60'X60'X1/96'=

Is my math right here re: peat moss amount? For 3600sqft lawn, I need to get 36 cubic ft (60x60x1/8"), or for easy math, 30 cubic ft, ie 10 ~3cuft bricks of peat moss. That's about $125 where I'm at - is that sound right?

It depends, what are you trying to do? Also, remember that the 3cuft bricks are compressed peat moss.

:thumbup: