[gatormac2112]

I'm going to be putting sod in the back yard and want some input. I have Zorro Zoysia in the front yard, its OK but I'm not crazy about how hard it is to cut and its extremely thin in the shady area on the south side of the lawn. So I was going to put TifGrand in the back yard, but the landscaper that is going to do the grading, irrigation, install, etc., says that he hates TifGrand, that he's had numerous problems with it dying off. He has no experience with Diamond Zoysia, but said he really likes Celebration Bermuda. I have an indoor dog, but will play sometimes in the back yard supervised so digging holes shouldn't occur, but wouldn't damage heal faster with Bermuda than zoysia?

So my questions to the experts here:

• Is it a bad idea to have Zoysia in the front and Bermuda in the back?

• Will any of the grasses listed do better or worse in shade which is the lower quarter of the yard?

• People here seem to love TifGrand. Is this guy a nut?

• TifGrand vs Celebration

• Diamond Zoysia vs any Bermuda with a German shepherd

• Is Bermuda less wear on a reel mower and easier to cut than zoysia?

• Which turf grass at 1/2 inch HOC feels best under the foot?

Any insight and answers to questions are greatly appreciated!

EDIT: as far as shade tolerance, we discussed the option of not sodding the shaded area of the lawn and doing some ground cover instead, so shade tolerance isn't the main deciding factor as I'm sure they all would struggle.

EDIT #2: I will consider TifTuf or any other turf grass. HOC maintained at 1/2 inch

 

[Movingshrub]

Are you considering Tiftuf at all?

What HOC are you planning?

 

[gatormac2112]

Are you considering Tiftuf at all?

What HOC are you planning?

Sure, and HOC will be 1/2 inch. I amended the post.

 

[Greendoc]

Zoysia is more wear and tear on the reel. Most "landscapers" in my state kill Tifgrand too. El Toro Zoysia is hard for them to kill, so they like it. I do not understand what yours does such that it dies in his hands.

 

[gatormac2112]

Zoysia is more wear and tear on the reel. Most "landscapers" in my state kill Tifgrand too. El Toro Zoysia is hard for them to kill, so they like it. I do not understand what yours does such that it dies in his hands.

I don't know :lol:

He's not going to be caring for it, just installing it.

 

[Colonel K0rn]

I kept my reno at 3/4", and it felt absolutely wonderful underfoot in the front, as well as the common bermuda in the back yard. As a matter of fact, I spent most of the time when I was walking the yard barefoot in the front and the back yard. That's because I had no weeds/sandburs/stinging insects in the yard. If you look at the areas of my backyard where the bermuda was thick, it's the only area that survived my dogs this winter, and had the least amount of Poa Annua. It's growing back with a vengeance in the thinner areas that the dogs wore out, and were covered with Poa now that the daytime temps have hit the 80's. You're familiar with increased maintenance and wear of zoysia on reels, so it's an easy vote to go with bermuda.

Remember, after the install, it's your baby, so it sounds like the installer might have a bias of bermuda over zoysia.

 

[Greendoc]

:shocked: if someone can kill Bermuda, I worry. To our Northern and Transition Zone brethren, Bermuda is a weed created by Satan. On the other hand, I think Zoysia was created by Satan to torture lawn and golf people. It is hard to mow and hard to keep flat.

 

[Greendoc]

I kept my reno at 3/4", and it felt absolutely wonderful underfoot in the front, as well as the common bermuda in the back yard. As a matter of fact, I spent most of the time when I was walking the yard barefoot in the front and the back yard. That's because I had no weeds/sandburs/stinging insects in the yard. If you look at the areas of my backyard where the bermuda was thick, it's the only area that survived my dogs this winter, and had the least amount of Poa Annua. It's growing back with a vengeance in the thinner areas that the dogs wore out, and were covered with Poa now that the daytime temps have hit the 80's. You're familiar with increased maintenance and wear of zoysia on reels, so it's an easy vote to go with bermuda.

Remember, after the install, it's your baby, so it sounds like the installer might have a bias of bermuda over zoysia.

:evil: When "landscapers" stick property owners with more than 5000 sq ft of lawn with Zoysia, I am really steamed. I get to talk to these people a year or so after the install. Why is it so thick? Why is it lumpy? Why does it have dead brown patches in it? That is because your "landscaper" neglected to tell you that Zoysia needs to be mowed at or below 1/2 with a reel mower kept sharp and in adjustment. If your lawn is bigger than 10,000 sq ft, you are in the market for a triplex. Common Bermuda can be maintained with a rotary mower at 11/2-2 inches with some attention to weed control and fertilization. Due to the extreme thatch production in my area, Zoysia does not get as many weeds, but it eventually crashes and burns from the thatch and diseases. Looking through this forum, I have not heard many Large Patch horror stories because in most cases it is kept "reel low".

 

[jayhawk]

I haven't had problems with Tifgrand, in part sun or full sun. everything repairs, grows slower in part sun, but Bermuda seems to have an advantage on recovery

•Is it a bad idea to have Zoysia in the front and Bermuda in the back?
w/o a natural break, you'll see the difference ...green up, texture, etc but the 'drive-by neighbor' - probably wont get a second look. if you use a fert/squirt co...they might treat them the same w/o direction

•TifGrand vs Celebration
I think the thread title "Bermuda in shade" might provide clues?

•Is Bermuda less wear on a reel mower and easier to cut than zoysia?
yep-recent equip thread. you could argue cutting freq would be higher in one vs the other

•Which turf grass at 1/2 inch HOC feels best under the foot?
shoot density is higher in zoysia so....

 

[Greendoc]

Without an 8-12" root barrier, whatever is not Zoysia becomes Zoysia. In my experience, Zoysia grows faster than the semi-dwarf TifGrand. I need to growth regulate my Zoysia lawns so the are maintainable on 7 day intervals when the sun comes back out in June. To me, Zoysia will always be prickly under foot and to sit on.

 

[mrigney]

Have no experience with TifGrand, but did install Celebration last summer. After part of a summer with it, I really like it. But I'm probably not the expert who should be giving advice Last year I maintained with a rotary at 1.5"-2". Was as low as I could go. This year, have a McLane and right now am planning on maintaining at 11/16" or 7/8".

Here's a picture of my Celebration last summer 4 weeks after install. Remember, not mowing reel low, but maybe gives some ideas? My kids and wife thought it felt pretty good underfoot. Good enough that my kids spent a whole lot of time rolling around the backyard last summer.



Here's this season so far...
Scalped down to 5/8" (March 11)


Starting to show some signs of life (March 31)


More than welcome to make the drive up from Cullman if you want to check out Celebration in person.

 

[gatormac2112]

Have no experience with TifGrand, but did install Celebration last summer. After part of a summer with it, I really like it. But I'm probably not the expert who should be giving advice Last year I maintained with a rotary at 1.5"-2". Was as low as I could go. This year, have a McLane and right now am planning on maintaining at 11/16" or 7/8".

Here's a picture of my Celebration last summer 4 weeks after install. Remember, not mowing reel low, but maybe gives some ideas? My kids and wife thought it felt pretty good underfoot. Good enough that my kids spent a whole lot of time rolling around the backyard last summer.



Here's this season so far...
Scalped down to 5/8" (March 11)


Starting to show some signs of life (March 31)


More than welcome to make the drive up from Cullman if you want to check out Celebration in person.

Thanks! Your yard looks great :thumbup:

 

[ReelCarolina]

I have both a zoysia (royal) front yard and a TifGrant backyard. I do have mulch beds and a privacy fence dividing the two so no encroachment. Full sun in the front and the zoysia grows like crazy. I have small trees surrounding my backyard on adjacent properties and two rather large trees in the center of my backyard. The TifGrand seems unaffected by the shade. I still get a fair amount of light back there but the shade tolerance was a big selling point for me in regards to the TifGrand. It's a great grass in my opinion. I maintain it around .5. According to specs on TifGrand the lower the HOC the more shade tolerant it becomes so keeping it low is a must. I have a little swatch of it in my front as well between my sidewalk and mulch. I did this before the zoysia because I landscaped the area. Side by side the TifGrand is noticeably darker and more dwarf-like if that makes a difference.

 

[gatormac2112]

I have both a zoysia (royal) front yard and a TifGrant backyard. I do have mulch beds and a privacy fence dividing the two so no encroachment. Full sun in the front and the zoysia grows like crazy. I have small trees surrounding my backyard on adjacent properties and two rather large trees in the center of my backyard. The TifGrand seems unaffected by the shade. I still get a fair amount of light back there but the shade tolerance was a big selling point for me in regards to the TifGrand. It's a great grass in my opinion. I maintain it around .5. According to specs on TifGrand the lower the HOC the more shade tolerant it becomes so keeping it low is a must. I have a little swatch of it in my front as well between my sidewalk and mulch. I did this before the zoysia because I landscaped the area. Side by side the TifGrand is noticeably darker and more dwarf-like if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the comparison!

 

[Iriasj2009]

So my questions to the experts here:

• Is it a bad idea to have Zoysia in the front and Bermuda in the back?

• Will any of the grasses listed do better or worse in shade which is the lower quarter of the yard?

• People here seem to love TifGrand. Is this guy a nut?

• TifGrand vs Celebration

• Diamond Zoysia vs any Bermuda with a German shepherd

• Is Bermuda less wear on a reel mower and easier to cut than zoysia?

• Which turf grass at 1/2 inch HOC feels best under the foot?

Any insight and answers to questions are greatly appreciated!

EDIT: as far as shade tolerance, we discussed the option of not sodding the shaded area of the lawn and doing some ground cover instead, so shade tolerance isn't the main deciding factor as I'm sure they all would struggle.

EDIT #2: I will consider TifTuf or any other turf grass. HOC maintained at 1/2 inch

I hear great stuff about tiftuf and that might be a great option for you. Tiftuf is aggressive, does better than other bermudas in shade and needs less input.
Celebration is also a great choice since it is also very aggressive. However, celebration is not as soft as other Bermudas.
I think zoysia is not a good option if you have pets.
tifgrand might not be a good option since I hear it is not as aggressive.
I agree with everyone else regarding your questions.

Good luck!

 

[Greendoc]

To add, Celebration cannot handle a low cut in the shade. I have seen it die out if not mowed higher in the shade.

 

[mrigney]

@Greendoc How low is low cut in the shade? I have some in the shade in one corner of the yard. It did great at 1.5" last year (not super low). I have it down at 11/16" right now and it's coming in pretty well. Experimenting this year now that I have a reel to see how it does.

 

[Greendoc]

I call anything under 1" low. I do know that if I tried to take Celebration down as low as I would TifGrand, I would see a lot of thinning. TifGrand can handle a 0.4 or 0.35" cut no problems. There is a lot of cloud cover and the days are shorter here than anywhere else in the US. We are daylight challenged here. TifGrand and Celebration both perform well as long as height of cut is appropriate.

 

[viva_oldtrafford]

TifGrand can handle a 0.4 or 0.35" cut no problems.

Without a doubt, the best Celebration I've ever seen was cut at .225". This doesn't mean that a homeowner should pursue this, but Celebration can tolerate a very low hoc - at the end of the day, inputs are inputs, whether it's tifgrand at .3 or C at .4, you're going to need some time and money to spare. I vote Celebration.

 

[Greendoc]

In sun? I know most Hybrid Bermuda will do well mowed very low. The question is, how low can you go in partially sunny areas. I can see mowing Celebration at 0.225" on a tee box in full sun. Would not try it where someone's house blocks the sun half of the day or under a tree.