[zeus201]

I've caught the reno bug but the wife seems to be immune. My kids are all about it as they will get to help play in the dirt and sand for leveling.

With irrigation system getting installed first week of July, I figured this would be a nice time to start over. As active we are in the backyard, I thought about going all PRG there instead of KBG to have a "faster" lawn in place. TTTF is out of the question as all of this will be maintained with my Greensmaster. "The Other Site" had a decent discussion on PRG and I took this information (albeit a couples years old) on pros and cons:

1) Grows faster than KBG
2) Very susceptible to red thread
3) Shows drought stress much, much sooner than KBG (that's how I can identify the remaining patches where my lawn meets my neighbor).
4) Fades out in the heat much faster than KBG
5) Doesn't spread (appears to be new cultivators that had lateral spreading, but doesn't seem as aggressive as KBG).
6) Seems more susceptible to fungal problems here on LI
7) Winter kill in a bad winter

What is great:
1) Beautiful color and texture
2) Germinates fast and establishes fast
3) Indestructible, it can/will bounce back from just about anything, include RU at low doses.
4) You can spray Barricade at seeding and it will germinate right through it
5) Early spring green-up

Outside of pros and cons, has anyone had any success with an all PRG turf north of 5b zone? Overseeds, winter kill, and fungus will be a fact of life, but PRG can look as nice as ***. I understand time isn't on my side but looking for a happy medium so family isn't banned from the backyard.

 

[Green]

I agree with it all, but as far as 3 and 4 in the cons section, I find most of the heat problems are near edges, like asphalt or concrete. I'm also not in Zone 5b, but we get cold Winters and hot Summers here (-8 to 96 in a typical year). I've experienced both the Winter kill and the Summer kill. I also can't speak for 3 in the pros section.

Here's the thing though...I've also had KBG and even TTTF get killed in the heat. It can happen...asphalt gets hot, and if your soil isn't holding the water you're putting down, you'll have issues with any grass.

 

[fusebox7]

Something that I don't see mentioned nearly enough is that grasses are "short-lived" perennials. That means they'll live more than 1-2 years but generally not more than 3-5 (if managed well). We all know that they can die in the first year or the year after, etc. if they are particularly stressed (or mismanaged). People tend to only think of winter-kill, etc. but not the maximum lifetime of the plant. Unless you're planting KBG or creeping bentgrass, the other cool-season grasses are going to die at some point within a few years and you'll have to replace them (overseed). Many people like myself choose to go the Kentucky bluegrass route because we want to keep a pre-emergent barrier up 100% (or as close to) each year. With Kentucky bluegrass producing over 1000 daughter plants via rhizomes each growing season, it's considered aggressive enough to not only maintain a dense stand but also repair damages that may occur in larger amounts. Kentucky bluegrass plants will also die in the same timeframe as the other grasses but they'll have generated 100-1000x or more of their progeny by the time they die (which is why it's such a sought-after grass). Yes you have to wait longer but if you never have to overseed again and can focus on other things... isn't that worth the slower establishment?

 

[iowa jim]

I am also doing a reno this fall and chose all kbg. There are some advantages to prg that i like also like early spring green up and faster germination. But the major factors for me are that with kbg i can keep a dark green all summer long with enough water, hard to do with prg. Having to overseed all the time will get old fast for me. Probably my main reason with going with kbg is the spreading ability. The newer prg is suppose to spread, but what i have heard is that it don't spread all that well. And in the spring i know my grass won't winter kill. Good luck with what ever you choose to go with. I will be following your reno, and hope you can follow mine.

 

[zeus201]

Something that I don't see mentioned nearly enough is that grasses are "short-lived" perennials. That means they'll live more than 1-2 years but generally not more than 3-5 (if managed well).

Great point, something that I didn't even think about. Starting to think I should stick with my original plan using KBG and yell at my kids & wife to keep off my grass :lol:

I am also doing a reno this fall and chose all kbg. There are some advantages to prg that i like also like early spring green up and faster germination. But the major factors for me are that with kbg i can keep a dark green all summer long with enough water, hard to do with prg. Having to overseed all the time will get old fast for me. Probably my main reason with going with kbg is the spreading ability. The newer prg is suppose to spread, but what i have heard is that it don't spread all that well. And in the spring i know my grass won't winter kill. Good luck with what ever you choose to go with. I will be following your reno, and hope you can follow mine.

What KBG did you end up choosing?

I really want to go with Mazama and Bluenote. Found sod quality Mazama seed from a localish dealer for $3.50/lb and is willing to divide out the 50/lb bag. Really wish I could find Bluenote (outside of SSS) as it performed really well at the Ames, IA NTEP trial site, which is 15-20 min drive from my place. I've called many places with no luck so far.

 

[LIgrass]

I believe this is from jglongisland (where are you buddy?) wish he would join us here.

Anyway, I'll throw my 2 cents in. I think he's very accurate with this except for the "indestructable" part. It can get hit hard from stuff that KBG would laugh at (Like a plastic bag left on a patch for a hot weekend could kill that spot). It's not as tough as KBG and will require reseeding down the road. The stuff sprouts so fast though it's not really hard as long as you keep it moist for a week or two. Also one thing that I notice is hardly any weeds show up in my PRG sections. There's debate over whether it's from allelopathic properties that PRG has or because of its vigorous growth uses all the resources that other plants need.

The winter kill stuff..I've not seen an ounce of winter kill here on Long Island and we just had a brutal winter. Summer kill is definitely the biggest threat. Also you need more sun than KBG for PRG to thrive.

It really does make an awesome lawn almost instantly compared to KBG (by day 45 it can look like gorgeous sod was installed).

 

[jha4aamu]

Something that I don't see mentioned nearly enough is that grasses are "short-lived" perennials. That means they'll live more than 1-2 years but generally not more than 3-5 (if managed well).

Great point, something that I didn't even think about. Starting to think I should stick with my original plan using KBG and yell at my kids & wife to keep off my grass :lol:

I am also doing a reno this fall and chose all kbg. There are some advantages to prg that i like also like early spring green up and faster germination. But the major factors for me are that with kbg i can keep a dark green all summer long with enough water, hard to do with prg. Having to overseed all the time will get old fast for me. Probably my main reason with going with kbg is the spreading ability. The newer prg is suppose to spread, but what i have heard is that it don't spread all that well. And in the spring i know my grass won't winter kill. Good luck with what ever you choose to go with. I will be following your reno, and hope you can follow mine.

What KBG did you end up choosing?

I really want to go with Mazama and Bluenote. Found sod quality Mazama seed from a localish dealer for $3.50/lb and is willing to divide out the 50/lb bag. Really wish I could find Bluenote (outside of SSS) as it performed really well at the Ames, IA NTEP trial site, which is 15-20 min drive from my place. I've called many places with no luck so far.

for the bluenote kbg seed did you call mtv seeds directly? you may have to get past the receptionist who will tell you they only sell to distributors and ask for an actual sales rep. i have purchased directly from them many times in quantities less than 50lbs

 

[zeus201]

for the bluenote kbg seed did you call mtv seeds directly? you may have to get past the receptionist who will tell you they only sell to distributors and ask for an actual sales rep. i have purchased directly from them many times in quantities less than 50lbs

What! I called them a couples weeks ago and receptionist told me to call their network of dealers. So I did they were all said they never heard of that cultivator but can get you XYZ seed. Guess I'm calling them back and asking for a sales rep.

 

[jha4aamu]

for the bluenote kbg seed did you call mtv seeds directly? you may have to get past the receptionist who will tell you they only sell to distributors and ask for an actual sales rep. i have purchased directly from them many times in quantities less than 50lbs

What! I called them a couples weeks ago and receptionist told me to call their network of dealers. So I did they were all said they never heard of that cultivator but can get you XYZ seed. Guess I'm calling them back and asking for a sales rep.

yea they told me the same thing. i just had to be persistent and then i think they realized i was OCD about my grass seeds then they magically found hundreds of pounds of the one i wanted :lol:

 

[iowa jim]

I chose midnight-50% mazama-25% bewitched-25% I got mazama from long island cauliflower association at $5.50 a lb. It had 0 weed seed and 0 other crop. I have 3 classifications covered this way. Just a word of caution on the bluenote is that it is quite a bit lighter color than the mazama will be. I considered bluenote as it is a very good grass but the color held me back.

 

[Green]

for the bluenote kbg seed did you call mtv seeds directly? you may have to get past the receptionist who will tell you they only sell to distributors and ask for an actual sales rep. i have purchased directly from them many times in quantities less than 50lbs

What! I called them a couples weeks ago and receptionist told me to call their network of dealers. So I did they were all said they never heard of that cultivator but can get you XYZ seed. Guess I'm calling them back and asking for a sales rep.

yea they told me the same thing. i just had to be persistent and then i think they realized i was OCD about my grass seeds then they magically found hundreds of pounds of the one i wanted :lol:

At least they didn't hang up on you and tell you to never call again because you were wasting their time as a member of the general public and they don't talk with the public! I had a manager at a bulk distributor (not even an actual grower, just a middleman) do that to me once.