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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've decided to keep a thread on my attempt to reseed this fall. I am pretty clear on my plan and am reasonably confident in a positive outcome. That being said, my first (ever) reseed this spring did not turn out well at all. If I am going to make a colossal mistake during my second reseed, at least I will have the advantage of someone possibly pointing out my mistake before I make it. Plus, we all like pictures, and I plan to take plenty.

Background
This is a new construction lawn that is nearly one year old. The area is almost 20,000 sq feet. No trees. Minimal shade. There is some sloping in the front yard and one side yard. Word in the neighborhood is that it is difficult to get grass to grow on these slopes (I plan to use a very thin layer of Scott's patch master to help the seed stay in place on the slopes).

The lawn had just been seeded when we moved in last September. Growth was minimal for several weeks. I believe it was at least the 2nd or 3rd week before we saw any growth at all. At the time, I was too busy with the move and family stuff to really take care of the new grass-not to mention that I really had no idea where to start at the time. By the winter, the grass had filled in quite a bit.

By March - April 2017, the lawn was thin, but at least I had grass. Here is what it looked like.





Around April I put down granular weed control, but did not get the results that I wanted. I'm pretty sure that I was way, way too light on my application. I then did a lot of homework on turf care. At some point I thought I would take a chance on reseeding. My thinking was that I might be able to thicken the lawn up and help prevent further weed growth. That, and I really felt that my options were limited since I had just put down a weed control product (Liquid herbicide seemed too daunting at the time). After dutifully waiting my 30 interval, I did said reseed with starter fertilizer and regular watering (no pre-emergent). The net effect was voluminous weed growth. I know that I had some germination, but the effort was generally unsuccessful. The weeds, especially crabgrass, took over as much space as possible. As I later learned in TLF, a spring reseed for a cool season grass was a losing plan in any case.

So, I did more homework on turf care. And then some more. Etc, etc.
I've been spending the summer on the basics-just trying to practice good mowing, correcting poor watering habits, learning the lay of my lawn, practicing edging, measuring sprinkler output, reading through TLF like its a NY best-seller novel, learning how to utilize impact sprinklers to more effectively cover all areas of the yard, doing even more homework, etc. I've applied baby shampoo 3-4 times this summer to alleviate substantial compaction. It has been effective. I've also been trying to eliminate unwanted grass with Ornamec. I had a brief period of fungal infection that went away with improved watering practices. I would have liked to put down some compost, but that's an expensive endeavor with 20ksqft. I have also wanted to level out my yard, but I figure that leveling is better done during a total renovation.
The lawn was looking like this during the summer.





On 8/15 I applied a 15-15-15 fertilizer to encourage weed growth and to address low phosphorous and potassium. On 8/16 I applied a second round of weed-killer (Bayer, WBG, RU) after an initial app around 8/4.
Here's what I am working with at the present time, embarrassing as it is.









I know. I know. Total reno is probably warranted here.

Much of the discoloration and death is from Ornamec. Otherwise, the discoloration/death is from the weed-killing products.
My next step is to apply glyphosate to some unwanted grass--probably in a matter of days. In another week or so, I may apply glyphosate to whatever weeds are still hanging around.

After that, I'm looking at applications of humic acid and kelp extract, dethatching with a dethatcher (also hoping to loosen the soil here a bit), reseeding, and Scott's fert with mesotrione. I'm still not sure if I will be mowing down gradually or if I will take inches off all at once - and only once. Gradual is usually the recommendation, but I've read of people doing it all at once. I'm worried that if I keep cutting low for a month or so, other vegetation will creep in.

I'm reseeding with TTTF from Bob Hogan. I'm honestly not sure what is currently growing. I see what I believe is KY31 in places (I may end up killing this off), but I also see some grass that is darker and not clumpy. It is possible that the builder used two types of fescue. Some of the darker grass could be from my reseed as well.

I should be set for seed down by 9/17, but I may wait a bit later, depending on temperature.
 

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Sp, sounds like you really wanna make this work and are willing to do what it takes to make it happen. Many of us are in similar situations and have had to screw up to learn the right way. Definitely been the case with me. Two thing that jumped out at me were your seeding date and how you intend to address the slopes. I've used that patchmaster before and it isn't gonna do squat for erosion control. Better options are either a germination blanket or tackifier. Personally I prefer tackifier as it's just as effective and doesn't smother the seed. With regards to your seeding date I realize you are in Tennessee and I'm not very sure when it gets cool there but it just seems late to me. Long as you got at least 6 weeks til first frost. But honestly 6 is not great.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 1/3 rule. Breaking it won't kill your grass, especially since you'll be watering so much.

Reseeding is a good opportunity to level with some top soil. But can always do it later with sand.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
During my fungal outbreak in the early spring/summer, I saw what I believed were patches of moss. I began to think that my soil was too alkaline. A cheap ph meter from a big box store confirmed this suspicion. I later sent a soil sample to LL. It turns out that my soil is not alkaline. I got rid of my ph meter. I then addressed the compaction, as it was the likely culprit.

I will place the report below for those who might be interested. I'm hoping that the recent heavy application of 15-15-15 made some headway in bringing those low phosphorous and potassium numbers up, but I'm really winging this part of my efforts. I take great comfort from Ware's dictum that most grasses will do just fine in less than optimal soil (http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=60). Mine is certainly less than optimal, but I'm hoping that it is sufficient for adequate growth. The weeds sure have enjoyed their stay.

 

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social port said:
During my fungal outbreak in the early spring/summer, I saw what I believed were patches of moss. I began to think that my soil was too alkaline. A cheap ph meter from a big box store confirmed this suspicion. I later sent a soil sample to LL. It turns out that my soil is not alkaline. I got rid of my ph meter. I then addressed the compaction, as it was the likely culprit.

I will place the report below for those who might be interested. I'm hoping that the recent heavy application of 15-15-15 made some headway in bringing those low phosphorous and potassium numbers up, but I'm really winging this part of my efforts. I take great comfort from Ware's dictum that most grasses will do just fine in less than optimal soil (http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=60). Mine is certainly less than optimal, but I'm hoping that it is sufficient for adequate growth. The weeds sure have enjoyed their stay.

Your ph and om are great. With that cec and your compaction issues, definitely assuming you've got some clay. Moss doesn't necessarily prefer a certain acidity as far as I know, I have tons of it and my ph is 6.2. Scott's makes a granular product but rakes up pretty easy. I believe the active ingredient is ferrous ammonium sulfate which is the same thing people use to green up their lawns. Apparently the moss can't handle it. Look into getting some sulfate of potash for your k deficiency. You need about 2lbs/ yr just to maintain so start with 4/yr for this and next year at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, Fronta1

Fronta1 said:
Long as you got at least 6 weeks til first frost. But honestly 6 is not great.
6 weeks is probably what I will have -- maybe a bit longer. I looked into it a few months ago and targeted the dates when the high temps would be consistently 80 or below. Over the past few weeks, I've been rethinking the mid-late September strategy and was considering moving the seed date up a bit. But I believe that I'm pretty well locked into 9/15-9/17 at this point: Weed killer applied 8/15, with a 30 day wait for seeding.
Fronta1 said:
Better options are either a germination blanket or tackifier.
Hmm...tackifier would be my preference. Do you have a good source for that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Fronta1 said:
Look into getting some sulfate of potash for your k deficiency. You need about 2lbs/ yr just to maintain so start with 4/yr for this and next year at least
I could get that down before seeding, right? I never realized how important potassium is. I always thought potassium was added to fertilizer to help granules move farther distances.
 

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social port said:
Thanks, Fronta1

Fronta1 said:
Long as you got at least 6 weeks til first frost. But honestly 6 is not great.
6 weeks is probably what I will have -- maybe a bit longer. I looked into it a few months ago and targeted the dates when the high temps would be consistently 80 or below. Over the past few weeks, I've been rethinking the mid-late September strategy and was considering moving the seed date up a bit. But I believe that I'm pretty well locked into 9/15-9/17 at this point: Weed killer applied 8/15, with a 30 day wait for seeding.
Fronta1 said:
Better options are either a germination blanket or tackifier.
Hmm...tackifier would be my preference. Do you have a good source for that?
There are two soluble powder products called turbo tack and witches brew on Amazon. There's also m-binder which is less concentrated and is probably better put down as powder and you would need more of it. If you choose the soluble powder your best off using a watering can as they are too viscous for a backpack sprayer.

Yes you can get that down before seeding. It's salty so water it in. 1# per app.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Fronta1 said:
There are two soluble powder products called turbo tack and witches brew on Amazon. There's also m-binder which is less concentrated and is probably better put down as powder and you would need more of it. If you choose the soluble powder your best off using a watering can as they are too viscous for a backpack sprayer.

Yes you can get that down before seeding. It's salty so water it in. 1# per app.
Roger that. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Noticed that my grass was dry yesterday. Little rainfall during the past week -- plus a stout dose of fertilizer...yeah, it was time for a nice soaking. I aimed for .75 inches.

Got up early this morning to apply glyphosate to some unwanted grass that survived earlier Ornamec applications. I'll need to do a more comprehensive glypho sweep with a backpack sprayer at some point. I didn't have much time this morning. I just wanted to kill as much as possible before my next mow, which is coming soon.

Biggest question this morning is whether or not I post in the 'what did you do to your lawn today' thread now that I am keeping my own reseed thread. Oh, it's tough all right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ericgautier said:
social port said:
I'm reseeding with TTTF from Bob Hogan.
I like the TTTF from Hogan. My background TTTF mix is from them. What cultivars are in the mix?
I was hoping to acquire speedway, but availability is pretty limited right now. I called the Hogan company several weeks ago to talk about their availability and to discuss the possibility of growing KBG in the region.
I haven't placed an order yet (but likely will in the next few days), but my likely choices are turbo and firecracker. Bullseye, cochise 4, and ls1200 are possible additions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Fronta1 said:
Yes you can get that down before seeding. It's salty so water it in. 1# per app.
That's 0-0-50. Since it would be best to have a higher potassium concentration when I seed, perhaps I should push the intensity of the initial app to 2 lb/k. Any arguments against this option?
 

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social port said:
Fronta1 said:
Yes you can get that down before seeding. It's salty so water it in. 1# per app.
That's 0-0-50. Since it would be best to have a higher potassium concentration when I seed, perhaps I should push the intensity of the initial app to 2 lb/k. Any arguments against this option?
I think you might be confusing potassium with phosphorus. No, I wouldn't exceed 1#/k. The saltiness means it could burn like nitrogen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the feedback.
Fronta1 said:
I think you might be confusing potassium with phosphorus.
You did recommend addressing the potassium deficiency.
Fronta1 said:
Look into getting some sulfate of potash for your k deficiency.
I assumed that an optimal potassium concentration would be desirable for seeding??
 

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Oh when you said you thought it would be a good idea to have a higher concentration for seeding I though you were confusing it with phosphorus, which is in fact helpful to have in higher concentrations at seeding. Any starter fertilizer will contain a good deal of it. Sorry about the confusion.

Ok, back to your question. Most recommendations I have read say to keep it around 1#/k because of its potential to burn the grass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Mowed yesterday using my zero-turn and push mower. I used my push mower with a bag attachment so as to catch unwanted grasses that are still lingering.
Did some spot spraying with glyphosate this morning. Also did some blanket glyphosate applications to take care of larger problem areas of weeds and unwanted grasses.
I'm unsatisfied with the results from the two apps of weed killer. By the time I take care of the remaining weeds, I'll be closer to a full reno than a reseed. Not an ideal situation, but that is where I am.
 
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