[jammkemp]

Hello everyone,
I have started the process of turning a untreated yard into a nice one. I have put down pre- ermergent with fertilizer, trimec treatment, and a liquid fertilizer and weed treatment down so far this spring. I have killed many of the preexcisting weeds in yard so far this spring. Now I have several bare spots. I know I would need to break up the soil to do any any seeding due to the pre-emergent. Would doing a overseeding and patching the bare spots do any good at this time or should I just wait untill this fall?

 

[g-man]

I think an overseed of the entire lawn after the PreM will not be successful. Is it a lot of bare spots? You could remove a couple of inches of soil and replace with a bag of topsoil and seeds. If you have any kbg in your property, could you use the plug method.

I just re-edge/expanded some mulch beds. That yielded around 8ft by 4in of kbg sod. That's another method to plug bare areas.

 

[Green]

For what it's worth, GCI Turf has a video where he spot seeds after a Pre-M barrier is already established. He breaks up the soil with a garden weasel, and states that the method has worked for him over the years for small spots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-3VSi978sU
Edited: Notice he doesn't step on the area after. I have a theory that doing so might partially reinstate the pre-M barrier. He leaves it fluffed up, and uses the weasel lightly again to cover the seed.

 

[jammkemp]

Thanks y'all ... I have been following GCI, Matt martin, the lawn care nut and several others on YouTube. They have been an amazing resource!!!

I may try breaking up the bare areas and just reseeding those areas!

 

[jammkemp]

My biggest concern is if the newly seeded areas could survive the summer?

 

[social port]

My biggest concern is if the newly seeded areas could survive the summer?

That is the biggest issue with spring seeding -- especially in the transition zone. Heat and humidity are tough.

I had a trial with heat-tolerant hybrid bluegrass last year during the early summer. It came up very nicely and died within a couple of weeks. Had I used a different watering strategy, the outcome might have been better. But daily watering in the late spring and early summer is just ask for disease trouble.

So...
My advice is to do the spring seeding if you are OK with failure. You might be just fine, but you are rolling dice, in my opinion. If you want to maximize the use of your seed, then wait until fall.

One other thing that is easily overlooked: If you are spot seeding in the spring, you are not only encouraging the growth of grass seed, especially when using fertilizer. If you pull the trigger on a spring seeding, stay on top of any possible weed germination. That stuff can spread rapidly. Of course, your surrounding PreM barrier should be an advantage.

 

[Stegs]

it will be fine. Use a garden weasel to break up the soil, fill in your barespots with seed, hit it again with the garden weasel to bury the seed

Step it down so it has good soil contact, lightly water 3-4 times daily

I did a lawn renovation at my house in michigan this year. i removed all the sod, brought it compost, raked it smooth, slit seeded with perennial rye and TTTF. After i did all that seeding we received all 4 seasons in about 3 weeks

We had sunny and mid 50s
we had snow
we had frost
we had a ice storm

I remember seeing seedlings the day before we got about 3 inches of ice/snow.

this past weekend it was sunny and mid 60s and guess what. I got what appears to be millions of seedlings popping up.
Just yesterday it was about 67 and bright sun at my house. In that 12 hours my yard went from dirt and a few seedlings to now it has a lime green tint to it.

Alot can happen in 12-24 hours

One thing about seeding lawns, try not to over think it. With a few basic steps it will grow....believe me!

 

[rockinmylawn]

So...
My advice is to do the spring seeding if you are OK with failure. You might be just fine, but you are rolling dice, in my opinion. If you want to maximize the use of your seed, then wait until fall.

One other thing that is easily overlooked: If you are spot seeding in the spring, you are not only encouraging the growth of grass seed, especially when using fertilizer. If you pull the trigger on a spring seeding, stay on top of any possible weed germination. That stuff can spread rapidly. Of course, your surrounding PreM barrier should be an advantage.

Hmmm - Good perspective.
I have a couple of spots that look totally yellow & doesn't appear it will recover from my fall overdosing of Pre_M that I think I am willing to fail on - cause it can't get any worse.

My lawn is all TTTF - would introducing another grass type for these spots - produce quick results in spring?
I have no problems with irrigation.

 

[social port]

@rockinmylawn
To stick with your cool season turf types, your best bet for quick germination is perennial rye. It is a beautiful grass. No questions about that at all. Beautiful. However, perennial rye won't tolerant the heat of summer as well as fescue (not sure how hot it gets in Central VA, but it is likely comparable to my region-formidable heat during July and August).
If you have bare soil, bluegrass is an option, but it's notorious 'sprout and pout' misses the mark in wanting quick results. Besides, growing bluegrass in the transition zone is not easy.

If it were me, I'd hope that your preM isn't still active and hit the spots with fescue. On average, fescue germination takes longer than rye, but I've found germination times of fescue to be quite variable. You could hope for a shorter germination period. Still, it is a big risk going into summer so soon. If you're going to do it, go for it now--and temper your expectations.

If you go for it (and regardless of rye or fescue), try to water only in the bare areas where your seed is. You really don't want a frequent supply of water on the neighboring established fescue.

 

[rockinmylawn]

@rockinmylawn
To stick with your cool season turf types, your best bet for quick germination is perennial rye. It is a beautiful grass. No questions about that at all. Beautiful. However, perennial rye won't tolerant the heat of summer as well as fescue (not sure how hot it gets in Central VA, but it is likely comparable to my region-formidable heat during July and August).
If you have bare soil, bluegrass is an option, but it's notorious 'sprout and pout' misses the mark in wanting quick results. Besides, growing bluegrass in the transition zone is not easy.

If it were me, I'd hope that your preM isn't still active and hit the spots with fescue. On average, fescue germination takes longer than rye, but I've found germination times of fescue to be quite variable. You could hope for a shorter germination period. Still, it is a big risk going into summer so soon. If you're going to do it, go for it now--and temper your expectations.

If you go for it (and regardless of rye or fescue), try to water only in the bare areas where your seed is. You really don't want a frequent supply of water on the neighboring established fescue.

@social port - thanks for the great info on the different grass characteristics.
Yes Central VA is all those things you listed.
Strategically watering the newly seeded areas is something that I can manage. Sounds like a plan.
How does perennial rye deal with the t-zone's winter - you think?

 

[social port]

How does perennial rye deal with the t-zone's winter - you think?

I can't say from experience. I do have a friend who grew perennial rye in Tenn., and it did very well over the winter. In fact, it was greener than most of the fescue, even in spring. However, when the summer temps hit, it became apparent why PRG isn't a common turf type in my region.
In general, from what I understand PRG performs best in mild climates--not too hot, not too cold.

So, I am speculating here, but I imagine that PRG would fare winter in the transition zone just fine. Some of the newer cultivars have improved cold tolerance as well.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

How does perennial rye deal with the t-zone's winter - you think?

I can't say from experience. I do have a friend who grew perennial rye in Tenn., and it did very well over the winter. In fact, it was greener than most of the fescue, even in spring. However, when the summer temps hit, it became apparent why PRG isn't a common turf type in my region.
In general, from what I understand PRG performs best in mild climates--not too hot, not too cold.

So, I am speculating here, but I imagine that PRG would fare winter in the transition zone just fine. Some of the newer cultivars have improved cold tolerance as well.

Yea, which i think is why most PRG seed is grown out here in the PNW. We may get a week or two of 90-100 weather during summer and maybe a week or two of snow west of the Cascades, but overall its pretty mild out here. It has its benefits, grass is green year round, but it also means weeds grow year round as well.

 

[vnephologist]

@rockinmylawn I still have some of the TTTF treated with Gravity PGS that Winfield sent me back in the Fall if you're interested. Great cultivars (I can go back and check specifics if you want) and the PGS gives it a kick. I'm in Richmond if you want to swing by and grab a few lbs.

 

[rockinmylawn]

How does perennial rye deal with the t-zone's winter - you think?

I can't say from experience. I do have a friend who grew perennial rye in Tenn., and it did very well over the winter. In fact, it was greener than most of the fescue, even in spring. However, when the summer temps hit, it became apparent why PRG isn't a common turf type in my region.
In general, from what I understand PRG performs best in mild climates--not too hot, not too cold.

So, I am speculating here, but I imagine that PRG would fare winter in the transition zone just fine. Some of the newer cultivars have improved cold tolerance as well.

@social port -thanks again for the insights.

I may just research a bit more on PRG to see if I really want it vs. just thinking I can get get it for filling out some spots quickly but then having to deal with unevenness again because of the mix with TTTF in the t-zone's climate.

 

[rockinmylawn]

@rockinmylawn I still have some of the TTTF treated with Gravity PGS that Winfield sent me back in the Fall if you're interested. Great cultivars (I can go back and check specifics if you want) and the PGS gives it a kick. I'm in Richmond if you want to swing by and grab a few lbs.

@vnephologist
I actually am interested.

Didn't know about the Gravity PGS 'booster' - just read about it now.
But based on my research & deployment last fall - I would have thought that something like Gravity PGS would not be needed for me in this area.

I had researched the NTEP top performers for brown patch resistance & VA Tech's recommended list also & found locally @ Pleasants Hardware had the Southern Belle Blend which had Raptor, Titanium LS, Firecracker, all of which were on
both lists:

So when my grass began this March into now April with an even slower wakeup vs. prior years - & some very apparent yellow spots that is only now exhibiting any kind of emerging grass leafs & uneven growth elsewhere I am racking my brains as to what happen overt the winter?!

My miscalculation of Pre_M by a factor of 10x is the most likely culprit back in October.
& the yellow spots maybe because of some accidental over dropped of Urea + Milo last fall.
But still the uneven growth esp. with the great cultivars I mentioned above is bothersome.
Going onto my 5th year @! this property - I have taken a big step backwards vs. the prior 4 years.

 

[social port]

How does perennial rye deal with the t-zone's winter - you think?

I can't say from experience. I do have a friend who grew perennial rye in Tenn., and it did very well over the winter. In fact, it was greener than most of the fescue, even in spring. However, when the summer temps hit, it became apparent why PRG isn't a common turf type in my region.
In general, from what I understand PRG performs best in mild climates--not too hot, not too cold.

So, I am speculating here, but I imagine that PRG would fare winter in the transition zone just fine. Some of the newer cultivars have improved cold tolerance as well.

@social port -thanks again for the insights.

I may just research a bit more on PRG to see if I really want it vs. just thinking I can get get it for filling out some spots quickly but then having to deal with unevenness again because of the mix with TTTF in the t-zone's climate.

You're very welcome :thumbup:
I do think that TTTF is an excellent choice for your area, but there is nothing wrong with exploring options or with experimenting. Several forum members are now growing KBG in the transition zone to see how feasible it is -- and that prospect is something that goes against conventional wisdom. The nice thing about doing turf care as a hobby is that if something doesn't work out, we usually have only ourselves to answer to (provided we have understanding spouses and neighbors )

 

[vnephologist]

@rockinmylawn I still have some of the TTTF treated with Gravity PGS that Winfield sent me back in the Fall if you're interested. Great cultivars (I can go back and check specifics if you want) and the PGS gives it a kick. I'm in Richmond if you want to swing by and grab a few lbs.

@vnephologist
I actually am interested.

Didn't know about the Gravity PGS 'booster' - just read about it now.
But based on my research & deployment last fall - I would have thought that something like Gravity PGS would not be needed for me in this area.

I had researched the NTEP top performers for brown patch resistance & VA Tech's recommended list also & found locally @ Pleasants Hardware had the Southern Belle Blend which had Raptor, Titanium LS, Firecracker, all of which were on
both lists:

So when my grass began this March into now April with an even slower wakeup vs. prior years - & some very apparent yellow spots that is only now exhibiting any kind of emerging grass leafs & uneven growth elsewhere I am racking my brains as to what happen overt the winter?!

My miscalculation of Pre_M by a factor of 10x is the most likely culprit back in October.
& the yellow spots maybe because of some accidental over dropped of Urea + Milo last fall.
But still the uneven growth esp. with the great cultivars I mentioned above is bothersome.
Going onto my 5th year @! this property - I have taken a big step backwards vs. the prior 4 years.

You should be good to go with that Southern Belle mix. I've actually recommended it to several folks in our area in the past. I consider it the best thing you can buy off the shelf around here. Since we're kind of thread hijacking, what do you think about creating a new one to discuss? I found that I needed a decent amount of N to wake up my similar cultivars this Spring. I'm wondering what your N app has been?