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Renovation guide (cool season)

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169K views 343 replies 91 participants last post by  PNWLawnnewb  
#1 · (Edited)
Renovation guide

A renovation is a great way to start over and get the lawn you want. It removes all the unknown grass types from your lawn. It is a great opportunity to level the yard and get a more consistent look.

But a renovation is a lot of work. Careful planning helps a lot, but mother nature normally has the last word. You can get lucky and have great temps with light rains or downpours/drought that destroy your work. It can be very rewarding but stressful and expensive.

I will strongly advise not to do a renovation until you at least have a year of proper lawn care knowledge. Get your current lawn to look the best, then kill it. A few of the things that you need to master before a renovation:

  • Spraying - proper overlaps with a calibrated sprayer is needed for round up, tenacity, fungicide applications. Know your system and practice with it.
  • Irrigation practices - figure out how to get good coverage.
  • Id and treat fungus - Have the products and be ready to spray. If you have to post pictures and wait for answers of what it is and what to buy, you will be loosing time making the fungus spread more.
  • Grass types - Get to know the different grass types and what works well for your area/yard. Doing a renovation and then regretting the seed choices is not fun. Some members have done a second renovation just to change the seed types.
  • Manage expectations with the significant other and life - It is going to take a lot of your time (eg. buying stuff, preparing, practicing). Going on vacation in the middle of a renovation is not ideal. A business trip can screw up your plans. The lawn will be unusable for a while, so plan what to do with the kids or dog.


Timing​

Most renovations start 8 weeks from seed down in the fall. Mid august is the most typical date. You want to pick a day that gives you enough time for the grass to grow before winter. Using mid August will give you 10-12 weeks before grow slows down. It is also not too early that you are not dealing with 95F days and drought (lets hope). You seed choice will also affect this choice. PRG is becomes a lawn a lot faster than KBG, so you could start later with it.


Steps​

The following steps are not all inclusive and other will have a different approach. I tried to avoid using dates since we have a lot of different climates. There is an overseed thread too.

  • Convince the significant other or at least plan for forgiveness.
  • Source your seeds. Here is a thread with some places.
  • Look at other members renovations from your area. See what worked for them. What they struggled with. Ask them questions.
  • T minus 8 weeks - Seeds are ordered and I'm tracking FedeX for delivery. You want to order at least double the qty you need in case there is an issue (eg, irrigation system broke, downpour, fungus). You want it at hand before round up. Start mowing low and bagging. If you need lime (per soil test), now is the time to do it.
  • T minus 7 weeks - Get a large container of round up concentrate. Practice your calibration of spraying with just water if needed. Do an irrigation audit to test the system and make sure it is all working. Mowing should be at the lowest without scalping (we need it green for round up to work) and bagging. Get a few seeds and test the germination in a moist paper towel.
  • T minus 6 weeks (the point of no return) - Do any drastic amendment of soils know, per your soil test. Apply round up. Dont think that more is better. Follow the label. We want a slow kill to the roots not a leaf burn. That means you want to use only glyphosate. Use a dye or go in two directions to get even coverage.
  • T minus 5 weeks - It should be brown by now. Start bag mowing at the low settings to pick up the debris. Keep watering daily to promote the weeds to germinate (aka fallowing). Check your irrigation coverage, puddles/dry spots.
  • T minus 4 weeks - The ground should be fairly clear and you can start to get it smooth. Address any dips/hills. Keep watering and check your irrigation coverage. The dry/wet soil makes it easy to spot issues now. If you need to get top soil, now is the time, so you can fallow it too. Use a hose/timer to complement your irrigation if needed. Continue the watering to grow weeds.
  • T minus 3 weeks - Second round of round up, lets kill the weeds. Weight your seeds and place in a ziplock bag. Label it by zones/areas.
  • T minus 2 weeks - Start looking at long range forecast. Adjust the seed down (early or later) based on heavy downpours or too hot weather. Do your tenacity calculations and get them on paper (4oz/acre rate no NIS). Get any ground cover you want to use (eg. peat moss). Straw is 1% weed, so avoid it. For hills, grow blankets work. Check Ryan Knorr youtube videos.
  • T minus 1 week - Start raking and making sure the the top 1/4in of soil is not compacted.
  • T minus 2 days - apply round up. Get the drink of choice.
  • Seed down - Do another raking and drop the seed. Rake again, then roll (stomp on it if you have to). Seed to soil contact is the key. You want the seeds to be 1/8 to 1/4in below the surface. Apply a phosphorous source if you soil test shows that you are low and spray tenacity. Drop the covering. Start the watering and drinking. No need to apply nitrogen, the seed has all it needs to grow for now.
  • Next 18 days - monitor the watering and the green babies. You want the soil moist, but not wet. You do not want to let it dry. Ideal times for me in the past, 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm and maybe 9pm. It depends on the temperature, sun/clouds and wind. It is a constant tweaking (a wyze webcam helps to monitor when not home). After germination happens, I back off from the night watering to avoid fungus. Monitor for fungus and use a fungicide if needed. Propi fungicide is safe to use and beneficial in young grass

Now start counting from germination and not from seed down:
  • 14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen granular/soil source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).
  • 21 days after germination- look for no germination zones and apply more seeds if needed. Start tweaking the irrigation to go a little longer and less frequent. Again, all based on your weather.
  • 28 DAG - Apply tenacity (4oz/acre rate no nis) and it depends on the weed pressure.
  • 28 DAG - another spoon feeding of granular/soil nitrogen(0.2lb of N/ksqft) and maybe some milo.
  • around 28 DAG or whenever the grass is above 2in in height - mow at 1.5 to 2in. Yes be careful in the turns but it will be fine. Let the soil dry a hair before mowing. A manual light weight push reel mower helps. Keep mowing at this height for ~4 weeks. Keeping it below the 2in mark helps the grass to grow tilers and spread.
  • 45 days - more nitrogen as needed (0.2lb of N/ksqft). Keep using a fast nitrogen source via granular/soil.
  • 60 days - Apply a PreM (prodiamine). Continue feeding the lawn and add P and K if your soil needs it.
    Herbicides and PreM after seeding


Spring​

It might look thin. You might think it was a failure. Don't panic and start spoon feeding (0.20 - 0.25lb of N/ksqft) weekly. It is still young and it will need some help. The grass doesnt have a strong root system, so the spoon feeding helps provide a constant food source that the roots can handle. As the grass gets more mature, switch to every two weeks and then monthly. Weeds, there will be some. I tend to hand pull and deal with poa a using tenacity. Prem in spring is helpful to prevent weed competition.

Final thoughts

Have a backup and a second backup plan. There is a lot of risk/luck in a reno and some times it doesnt play out. you might want a KBG monostand, but settle for ryegrass or buying sod instead of mud next year.

Doing a Reno? Start a your journal. Share a brief description of your plans. Ask Reno specific questions. It helps to keep it all in one place to get proper guidance from experienced members.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for putting this together. I did a KBG reno last fall and I'm definitely in that "starting to panic" mindset. I've been debating when to start my weekly spoon feeding, seeming I'm in Michigan and temps are just starting to stay in the 50's consistently. Any do you recommend going with 46-0-0 urea or a more balanced fert for the spring spoon feeding?
 
#5 ·
@MarkJor if you have green up, then start nitrogen. Use balance only if your soil needs P or K, otherwise just use urea.

@uts I added this to the list of articles within the cool season guide. This way we only have one sticky per folder.
 
#7 ·
Thank you for this post. I'm brand new to the lawn care and just moved into my home in February. I had planned on renovating both my front and back yard because of it being in terrible conditioning by previous owners with TONS of weeds basically the entire thing smh with little grass, and the soil has being very low 5.7 (recently got results from soil test). I have been reading this forum a lot and asked a few questions to gain more knowledge.

I think I will hold off on renovation this fall and wait until next year. I want to gain even more knowledge and purchase more equipment and necessary things piece by piece instead of rushing to buy all at once especially at a time now with this coronavirus epidemic. I only have and recently purchased a Brinly Broadcast Spreader with side deflector P20-500BHDF, and will be buying lime on Thursday. By next year I should have a full lineup.

What should I do from now until I begin renovation next year to get ready? I would really appreciate any suggestions. (Lime, premerge/post, continue mowing down the weeds and little grass?)
 
#14 ·
ArtOfWar626 said:
Awesome post! Thank you for sharing.

Would you say that its still necessary to glyphosate your lawn if it requires anywhere from 2" to 5" inches of leveling? So new soil would be added on top of the existing lawn.
Yes. The new soil will have weeds.
 
#15 ·
ArtOfWar626 said:
Also, have you used Ethofumesate during a fall renovation? It's a pre-emergent for Poa Annua. I'd recommend adding that in during seeding if you could add it into your renovation.
I haven't but it is a good strategy.
 
#17 ·
g-man said:
ArtOfWar626 said:
Awesome post! Thank you for sharing.

Would you say that its still necessary to glyphosate your lawn if it requires anywhere from 2" to 5" inches of leveling? So new soil would be added on top of the existing lawn.
Yes. The new soil will have weeds.
So you would recommend to glyphosate the existing lawn. Then add in the new soil. Level it out the new soil. Glyphosate the soil. Then days later start the seeding and continue on the regular steps?
 
#21 ·
Alex1389 said:
@g-man Thoughts on going with .5 N/M weekly in the first spring after a reno or is that overkill?
I've been following the .25lbs weekly and it's helped my yard tremendously. Nice and green. Now, here in PA the weather has been horrible this entire month so I haven't had a big green spring up but it's been growing slowly. I'm sure a bit more wouldn't hurt but the .25lbs has been seemingly working well
 
#22 ·
Excellent post as usual @g-man. I spent this past winter preparing by using @Pete1313 2017 Bewitched Renovation as a template so it's reassuring to know I didn't miss anything. One thing I noticed is that Pete used a slightly higher dose of Urea (0.35-0.46# N/M) for his weekly feedings so I'm wondering how much is too much when you're applying Nitrogen?
 
#24 ·
Excellent post @g-man! Where do you find the time! :lol:

g-man said:
[*] 21-28 DAG - Apply tenacity (4oz/acre rate no nis) and it depends on the weed pressure.
I would disagree not using NIS. I see your thought though.

Zip-a-Dee-Zee said:
Excellent post as usual @g-man. I spent this past winter preparing by using @Pete1313 2017 Bewitched Renovation as a template so it's reassuring to know I didn't miss anything. One thing I noticed is that Pete used a slightly higher dose of Urea (0.35-0.46# N/M) for his weekly feedings so I'm wondering how much is too much when you're applying Nitrogen?
g-man said:
Yes you can get away with more N. Strive for a healthy grow. I prefer to keep my rate at 0.25lb of N/ksqft and adjust the frequency (6 days or 8days) based on weather and what I'm seeing.
.25 lbs of N/M is good advice. You could do a little higher like I did and not have any issues. Some might argue that higher than .25 lbs of N/M might be wasted as the grass is not mature enough to take it all in. there is also risk of burning and mistakes as the rate goes up. One thing to @g-man's point is that there is no doubt a new lawn needs more N. Especially during the grow-in year. 50% more then a mature lawn? 100% more? That can be debatable and individual lawn based, but light and frequent is the way to go. :thumbsup:
 
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#332 ·
Excellent post @g-man! Where do you find the time! :lol:


I would disagree not using NIS. I see your thought though.




.25 lbs of N/M is good advice. You could do a little higher like I did and not have any issues. Some might argue that higher than .25 lbs of N/M might be wasted as the grass is not mature enough to take it all in. there is also risk of burning and mistakes as the rate goes up. One thing to @g-man's point is that there is no doubt a new lawn needs more N. Especially during the grow-in year. 50% more then a mature lawn? 100% more? That can be debatable and individual lawn based, but light and frequent is the way to go. 👍
My lawn was seeded in spring May 31. I applied 0.25 lb n/k around 28 DAG. It’s been cool here in central Wisconsin for this time of the year. Since it’s a spring seeding and the grass has pretty much left sprout and pout can I go weekly with the spoon feeding to get it to thicken up or should I go every two weeks or not at all until mid August? I do have irrigation so water stress is not a problem. I hand pulled most of the weeds but is tenacity as a preemergent a bad idea this time of the year. Don’t want to throw down prodiamine just yet as I may want to reseed thin spots in mid August
 
#25 ·
I live in nj and am planning a reno this year. I have about 4 different grass types and want to go mono. I have never done a reno but have a pretty good idea on what to expect. Planning a kbg reno so what will be the best seed down date for that? Im thinking mid aug may be still way too hot. I want to carefully plan every detail so i dont screw this up.
 
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