[gene_stl]

My general plan is, after finishing up collecting leaves and close cutting the lawn for the winter to do the following.

A major mechanical maceration of the lawn using powered implements of destruction. An aerator, a power rake and a vertical cutter. But not killing the existing "grass" with glyphosate

Treatment of the lawn areas that are in direct sun with Tupersan (siduron) pre emergent. Do any of our forum members have particular opinions or experiences with this product. I want to overseed and suppress the crabgrass at the same time.
I want to take advantage of the spring rains to get the lawn started. This year we were pretty droughty here. The lot is too big to irrigate. I don't want to go to the expense and aggravation of an irrigation system. That is probably my main constraint for selecting what kind of seed to use.

I will overseed after thrashing the hard soil. I am looking at some of the products from Jonathan Green. Again have any forum members had experience or have opinions on these products or do you have recommendations for seeds or seed sources. I am in St. Louis Missouri. My lot has areas which are open to full sun, as well as partial shade and even some pretty deep shade. Jonathan Green has two types of shady mix one for open shade and one for deep shade. A lot of the JG products are pretty expensive but they claim very up to date cultivars on their grass seed.

I plan on using starter fertilizer including tupersan and adding milorganite and other things such as iron and eventually other Pre Emergents and herbicides after the seed germinates.

Any comment would be appreciated.

 

[g-man]

For St Louis I would advice against a spring Reno/overseed. The hot dry summer would kill the young grass. August seeding is normally more effective.

I would apply a prem in early spring so that the prem protection is gone by August. I would then use Tenacity at seed down instead of Tupersan (not as important in an overseed, but a must for a Reno).

You will find better seeds quality buying from Hogan or Preferred seed or seed super store than the JG bags. You could get a mix of just the seed type you want plus also get sod quality (no weed seeds). I would avoid fine fescues(creeping red fescue) in any areas except the deep shade ones.

 

[gene_stl]

Thank you g-man ,
I knew there was another prem you could use besides Tupersan but I could not remember the name of it.

I am undecided whether to risk a spring seeding. I read a post here (possibly posted by you) not long ago with the advice to not early spring seed. It certainly makes good sense. On the other hand last year , here we had great rain in the spring, then nothing including in the fall. I suppose I could do it in the spring and then hand water it or use sprinklers, if the summer is too dry.

Part of the reason I asked about Jonathan Green is that they have a very effective "educational" program but the information fomented points to their own products as does all advertising. In their "Black Beauty Ultra" product they highlight the "waxy cuticle" on their grass which "reduces the need for watering". Directly pushing one of my buttons.

It's always better to ask someone with no financial interest.
Thank you again.

 

[stanleyleecm]

I am in STL area as well. I've done two renos in fall with high quality seeds from Hogan company. Hogan blend is what I used with great success, give them a call and talk to the owner. He is very knowledgeable and he will give you some guidance.

http://www.thehogancompany.us/products.html

 

[social port]

Just chiming in to reinforce the suggestions provided by g-man.
Spring seeding is possible, and you might even get a high rate of germination. However, summer will claim victims. Don't ask me how I know Definitely, the smartest strategy for obtaining the best possible outcome while minimizing cost and time is a fall reseed.
I hear your consideration regarding high amounts of rain in the spring. I would suggest that a lot of rain is an enemy in disguise. You don't want your soil to be absolutely drenched while your seed is germinating and your new grass is growing. Too much rain could lead to seed washout (leading you to need to buy more seed) or interfere with growth of baby grass.
Also, I would imagine that Missouri humidity would place you at increased risk for fungal infections--especially common in summer.

All of this is to say that I think fall is the best time to grow new grass.

 

[Budstl]

Contact http://www.emeraldviewturffarms.com
They are located in ofallon if you're interested in jg products. I have never delt with them personally. Like others said, do a fall reno. Unfortunately this fall for us was very dry. I started a kbg reno aug 26th and only saw 1 rain which was a downpour.
I'm planning on doing my front yard next fall. If the kbg can hold up to our summer here, ill do kbg. If not, I'll do tttf for the front. If that is the case, I'm looking at 4th millennium and traverse 2 from preferred seed.

 

[gene_stl]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I guess fall overseed it is. In the meanwhile I will pre-em and fertilize and decompact.