[dtillman5]

First let me say I have loved reading all the posts! You guys are awesome, and the information is inspiring! I have been reading as a guest for quite some time but just joined. I just built a new house In Huntsville AL, and they put down bermuda sod on top of pure red Alabama clay. As is the norm in our area. Common local wisdom is you need a million pounds of lime!!! A Joke, but everyone says you can do a soil test but you will need a couple tons of lime. Any way yard looks pretty good after 3 months(nothing like you guys awesome lawns), we have had tons of rain. I put down Scotts turf builder after about 5 weeks at the recommended rate for my Scotts spreader 3 1/2 setting.

My yard is fairly level but nothing like you guys with the bowling lane smooth yards. Actually compared to you guys it's a bumpy mess, but my hats off to all of you, DFW pilot, Ware, Red and so many others. I want mine smooth and level too.

So its late in the season, Im push mowing, actually rather tall it seems, probably a couple inches and my yard is in sever need of leveling. I have a plan based on what I have read and want to run it by you experts and get some guidance if i may.

My plan is to scalp my yard in late Feb early March, then verticut it, and remove all clippings and debris. Possibly aerate and collect plugs. then put down pre-emergent (prediamine)
Edge the whole front yard.
Then over seed the whole yard.
Soil test to see how many tons of lime I need (haha, not sure if its true but everyone here says it is) and any other micro's or macro's that are recommended.

After green up T-nex or T-Pac PGR (should I consider soil surfactant? (Turf2max, Panterra, with a full clay yard which might be best?) If so when to apply?)

April-May scalp again because i need to level (at least the front this next season, badly needs it) fertilize with fast acting nitro, get sand delivered to level and drag. Water and drag again if needed.

late May: Milo
June: Milo + PGR
July: Milo
Aug: Milo + PGR
Late Sept: Prodiamine

Oct: ?
Nov: ?
Dec: ?
Jan: ?

Weed control with Bermuda Triangle (sedge hammer for sedge, Celsius for all others, should I add MSO to Celsius? Paint anything left with glyphosate.

My first year I probably wont have HOC lower than 0.75 as this is as low as I can go until I can save for a reel mower. might be able to borrow one for Feb/March scalp. And for May scalp before level.

Any and all suggestions/corrections welcome

Thank you all in advance,

David

 

[Stro3579]

I need a schedule also. Im a noob as well. My yard looks nice, but need to get it down to a science. I am also going to fire my lawn treatment service and start maintaining my own yard.

 

[dtillman5]

Yea I'm with you, want to do it myself and do it right. I'm just not sure about a few things.. well honestly I'm not sure about any of it, but my schedule is based on what I've read here, that's why I'm hoping for input. From what I've seen these guys are on point for helping out so I'm just waiting to soak up the knowledge!

 

[Ware]

Sorry for the delay on this...

There has been some discussion of writing something up, but in the interim I would just follow this Bermuda calendar from Auburn. When I started, I followed a similar one from the University of Arkansas, but I really like how concise the Auburn calendar is.

Some general comments on the document, from my experience:

1. The 1 lb of Nitrogen per month during the growing season is just a guide. I personally use less, but slightly more could be used to encourage more growth.
2. As you've seen on this site, mowing heights can vary wildly depending on your expectations/mowing schedule/use of PGR, but generally the lower the better, as long as you aren't scalping every time you cut.
3. The 1" of irrigation or rainfall per week is sort of a rule of thumb, but it may need more when it is very hot and dry.
4. For the February and September pre-emergent apps, I would suggest Prodiamine 65WDG at half the annual max (i.e. half in Feb and the other half in Sept). Prodiamine is also available as a granular product, but spraying it is more cost effective. Pre-emergent timing is critical - you want an active barrier established at the times when weeds are germinating. Note that the Auburn calendar says February, but the Arkansas calendar suggests March is better - that's based on the differences in soil temperatures between the two states during the spring.
5. For post-emergent weed control, I would suggest using the Bermuda Triangle, which is Celsius WG for broadleaf and grassy weeds, and Certainty for sedges. When coupled with a good pre-emergent program, these two post-emergent herbicides should take care of most of the break-through weeds you encounter. I would wait until you find something you have that those two won't kill before exploring other options.

That pretty much covers what I would call the basics/necessities. Beyond that, you could start exploring things like Plant Growth Regulators (PGR), Iron applications, and other nutrient deficiencies. Fortunately for us, Bermuda is a very forgiving turfgrass - it would grow across the sidewalk if you let it.

I sort of rushed through this, but feel free to ask any additional questions you may have. :thumbup:

 

[dtillman5]

Thank you Ware for the great reply. Really enjoying this group. I have a quick question about #1. on your list, is that 1lb per 1k sq ft?

 

[Ware]

Yes, and just to be clear that's 1 lb of Nitrogen, not 1 lb of product.

For example, a bag of 28-x-x is 28% N, so a 50 lb bag of it contains 14 lbs of N. At a rate of 1 lb per thousand, that bag would cover 14k ft2[/sup]. At a rate of 0.5 lb per thousand, that bag would cover 28k ft[sup]2.

Just throwing that out there for anyone who reads this thread that doesn't know.

 

[SGrabs33]

Yes, and just to be clear that's 1 lb of Nitrogen, not 1 lb of product.

For example, a bag of 28-x-x is 28% N, so a 50 lb bag of it contains 14 lbs of N. At a rate of 1 lb per thousand, that bag would cover 14k ft2[/sup]. At a rate of 0.5 lb per thousand, that bag would cover 28k ft[sup]2.

Just throwing that out there for anyone who reads this thread that doesn't know.

That's great, I am not necessarily a noob but I need to get this ingrained in my head. Thanks.

 

[dtillman5]

Ware,

Thanks for the information, I'm pretty sure I might have missed that if you hadn't spelled it out so clearly.

 

[Ware]

That's great, I am not necessarily a noob but I need to get this ingrained in my head. Thanks.

That's one of the reasons I like to use Milo (5-x-x) on my ~7k ft2 lawn. It's not the cheapest source of Nitrogen, but I can drop 2-3 bags (36 lbs each) to get 0.5-0.75 pounds of N per thousand on my lawn. I feel like I get really good coverage spreading that much product, which satisfies my inner OCD.

 

[Ware]

Ware,

Thanks for the information, I'm pretty sure I might have missed that if you hadn't spelled it out so clearly.

Great! That's why TLF exists! :thumbup:

 

[dtillman5]

That's great, I am not necessarily a noob but I need to get this ingrained in my head. Thanks.

That's one of the reasons I like to use Milo (5-x-x) on my ~7k ft2 lawn. It's not the cheapest source of Nitrogen, but I can drop 2-3 bags (36 lbs each) to get 0.5-0.75 pounds of N per thousand on my lawn. I feel like I get really good coverage spreading that much product, which satisfies my inner OCD.

Ware, and if I'm reading things correctly Milo won't burn your lawn which is a plus for someone like me who is just starting out

 

[Ware]

Correct. How big is your lawn?

 

[dtillman5]

Correct. How big is your lawn?

roughly 8K, I need to measure again now that the fence is up and moved the back yard in about 2-2 1/2 feet.

 

[Ware]

Here is good tool to use for measuring lot size.

 

[dtillman5]

Here is good tool to use for measuring lot size.

8,435 sq ft. so I'm guessing 4-5 bags of Milo outa do me

 

[raldridge2315]

First let me say I have loved reading all the posts! You guys are awesome, and the information is inspiring! I have been reading as a guest for quite some time but just joined. I just built a new house In Huntsville AL, and they put down bermuda sod on top of pure red Alabama clay. As is the norm in our area. Common local wisdom is you need a million pounds of lime!!! A Joke, but everyone says you can do a soil test but you will need a couple tons of lime. Any way yard looks pretty good after 3 months(nothing like you guys awesome lawns), we have had tons of rain. I put down Scotts turf builder after about 5 weeks at the recommended rate for my Scotts spreader 3 1/2 setting.

My yard is fairly level but nothing like you guys with the bowling lane smooth yards. Actually compared to you guys it's a bumpy mess, but my hats off to all of you, DFW pilot, Ware, Red and so many others. I want mine smooth and level too.

So its late in the season, Im push mowing, actually rather tall it seems, probably a couple inches and my yard is in sever need of leveling. I have a plan based on what I have read and want to run it by you experts and get some guidance if i may.

My plan is to scalp my yard in late Feb early March, then verticut it, and remove all clippings and debris. Possibly aerate and collect plugs. then put down pre-emergent (prediamine)
Edge the whole front yard.
Then over seed the whole yard.
Soil test to see how many tons of lime I need (haha, not sure if its true but everyone here says it is) and any other micro's or macro's that are recommended.

After green up T-nex or T-Pac PGR (should I consider soil surfactant? (Turf2max, Panterra, with a full clay yard which might be best?) If so when to apply?)

April-May scalp again because i need to level (at least the front this next season, badly needs it) fertilize with fast acting nitro, get sand delivered to level and drag. Water and drag again if needed.

late May: Milo
June: Milo + PGR
July: Milo
Aug: Milo + PGR
Late Sept: Prodiamine

Oct: ?
Nov: ?
Dec: ?
Jan: ?

Weed control with Bermuda Triangle (sedge hammer for sedge, Celsius for all others, should I add MSO to Celsius? Paint anything left with glyphosate.

My first year I probably wont have HOC lower than 0.75 as this is as low as I can go until I can save for a reel mower. might be able to borrow one for Feb/March scalp. And for May scalp before level.

Any and all suggestions/corrections welcome

Thank you all in advance,

David

Dave, I live in Decatur and yes, I agree, we grow grass on the red clay --- no way to change that. And as you have been told, lime and more lime and more lime. It should look like it snowed lime. Here in the south we are known for pretty women and fast horses, or is it fast women and pretty horses. In either case, we have woefully poor soils.

I am a disciple of Dr. Louis Wise's "The Lawn Book" published by Mississippi State in 1961. His recommendations for annual maintenance: (per 1000 sq.ft.)

"25 to 50 pounds of lime as needed to maintain pH 6.5
15 to 30 pounds complete fertilizer at beginning of season
1 to 2 pounds nitrogen at 1 to 2-month intervals through the season."

He strongly urges a soil test, but mostly to determine pH.

He states that the complete fert. at the beginning of the season provides all of the phosphorus and potassium needed for the entire season. One of his nitrogen recommendations is Milorganite. It worked back then and it works now.

I use prediamine on Feb. 15 and Sept. 30 I also put it down very lightly in mid May,

I have about 4700 sq. ft. and I put down 100 lbs of 19-19-19 ( about 20 lbs./K) on March 15 right after I have scalped. I know that's a little heavy and it does look like it snowed fert, but it works for me. I start monthly Milo apps the first of May. I do not use a growth regulator. My soil test shows that I am extremely low in iron, so I apply 6 oz./K of Blade Iron every two weeks. It is 15-0-0 and 6% iron. That applies 0.11 lbs, N/K. My grass is green. I'm retired. I don't have time for a job, so I can mow twice a week. My current HOC is .75.

For the first couple of seasons, I would concentrate on pH and leveling. Neither one will happen over night. I would not worry about aeration and verticutting if it's that or sand. I vote sand. Twice a season if you can afford it in money and time. Table top smooth is the answer. I would not overseed. I've had my current lawn (Tiflawn bermuda) for over 25 years and I still find some common in it occasionally. It's a waste of time and money and you will wind up with different looking grass in spots. If you do not have an irrigation system, I would go for that before a high dollar mower. By the way, I saw a Tru-Cut P20 on Craig's list in Huntspatch recently. The guy wanted $800, said that it was only a couple of years old and hardly used. It looked brand new. I would have snatched it up, but I already have one.

If you have any questions, ask. There are no dumb questions, but some are infinitely more brilliant than others!! Oh, come on, it was a joke.

Richard

 

[dtillman5]

Sorry Richard, I missed you initial post here. Much appreciated and great info from a member in my exact region and same soil. Yes I agree on irrigation, that will be next on my list, may have it put in just as lawn goes dormant this season (thought?). As for reel mower it may not happen until well after I get a good base and level this next year, might even have to be the season after. Thanks again for the input!

 

[Stro3579]

I am leveing today. yard is scalped and about to aerate. what is a good fertilzer for 8500 sq feet to put down to get jump start the yard. before scalping and leveling I was having to cut every other day. it was growing that fast. I am also putting down lime after areating.

 

[Stro3579]

oh yeah forgot to mention. I am a little nervous to add fertlizer because of how hot it has been the last couple of days. heat index 105 ish

 

[dtillman5]

So if I scalp and level with sand mid March, would I put down my balanced fert before putting the sand on top and leveling?