[Jeaux Bleaux]

Hey guys, I've been reading here for a couple of weeks now and decided to finally join up and ask for everyone's help. There's a wealth of knowledge here, and I've really enjoyed learning more about how to care for my lawn. I have a ton of questions, so I apologize in advance.

A little about my yard:

Location: Southwest Louisiana
Grass type: St Augustine primarily (or weeds primarily, with St Aug mixed in)
Sunshine: Full sun, very little to no shade
Size: .85 acre
Goal: A full, lush St Augustine yard

So the family and I moved into the house in the fall a year and a half ago. I was never a lawn person, and evidently, neither were the previous homeowners. The yard is green, and pretty from the road, but on closer inspection, it's fully overflowing with weeds. Last Spring is when we realized that the yard is full of stickers, which I now know is called burweed. I I didn't know what to to do, so I did nothing, and forgot about them in the fall when the yard was once again nice to walk in.

Fast forward to this year, and of course they're back. Not knowing anything about lawn care, I went to Lowe's and purchased Scott's Bonus S, and spread 2 bags (2 weeks ago). I ran out halfway through the backyard and decided to see how it did before going back to purchase another bag to finish the back yard. On a positive note, it killed the burweed great. Too late to really matter, as dead stickers are still tough to walk on, but it makes me smile when I see them all brown and shriveled up.

The other thing that I saw was that there was a visible line in my back yard between the treated side and the side I had yet to finish. The treated side was a much darker, prettier green. So I went and purchased another bag of Bonus S and applied it last weekend.

So that's where I'm at as far as "treatment". I've since purchased some sprinklers, and have started to water my lawn twice a week. And I actually really enjoy taking care of it. It's soothing to me.

I'm looking for help with a year round fertilization/weed control schedule, complete with specific recommendations for products please. With the reading I've done the past few weeks, it seems like I'd be more successful getting away from the "weed and feed", and treat each issue separately. I have my Amazon cart full, and I'm waiting on your guys advice before hitting the ship now button. I have a bottle of Celsius, a bottle of Certainty, some Prodiamine, and 2 bottles of Southern Ag Surfactant (1-MSO, 1-Non-Ionic).

My thoughts on a schedule, please correct as needed:

Fertilize 3 times a year - April, July, October
(Open to suggestions for a stand alone fertilizer, as I have none now)

Prodiamine In the fall - Mid-October?

Spring - Spray Celsius for any burweed that may have escaped. (I refuse to step on those stickers for another year),

Questions:

how long should I wait after applying this bonus S before applying anything else? It killed the burweed and some of the clover, but there's more weeds than just that. Would it be ok to spray the entire yard with Celsius to kill any of the remaining? And if so, when?

Can I mix the Celsius and Certainty when I spray for a time saver, or should I apply separately? If separate, is there any time I should wait before applying the 2nd herbicide?

Thank you all so much for any of you reading through that novel, and for any help you can give me. This post is long enough already, but I'll try to add pictures below

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

 

[SCGrassMan]

What I would do, and some of this you may have done already:
-Prodiamine twice a year, September and Feb/March
-Atrazine can kill a lot of stuff (Scott's weed and feed southern, purple bag)
-2,4D with Dicamba, combined with Celsius spray
-Fertilizer as needed

I think if you get going on the weed spraying it will turn into 100% STAug pretty darn quick.

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

I was nervous w/ the 2,4D on the St Aug. Thought I read somewhere it could stunt/harm it. Once again, I'm completely new to this, so I'll obviously defer to anything you guys suggest.

Being that I just laid down the Azatrine (Bonus S), do I need to wait on the weed spraying? I was planning on spraying the entire yard the first time.

I'll definitely do the Prodiamine twice a year if that's what's needed. So, you're saying do the prodiamine in February instead of the Celsius?

Any recommendations on a stand alone fertilizer?

 

[SCGrassMan]

I use the scotts greenmax or whatever it says called - the green bag with the "guaranteed green up in 3 days". I also use milorganite periodically as well.

After killing all the weeds and putting down prodiamine twice a year you shouldn't have much need for Celsius going forward except spot spraying.

If you just put down Atrizine I'd wait 2 weeks since whenever you put it down. Don't mow two days before or two days after you spray 2,4D and Celsius. You can mix the two together in the tank. I did this yesterday - I did 1 Oz 2,4D per gallon, and 2 grams Celsius per gallon, with 0.5oz/gal Nonionic Surfactant and 0.5oz/gal blue dye.

I have been told with celsius specifically not to "soak" the weeds that just a misting is good. You should get about 1,000 SqFt per gallon of spray. If you're getting more or less than that adjust your pace.

 

[SCGrassMan]

Also sharpen your mower blade if you haven't yet this year.

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

Fantastic info. Thanks for all the advice, and for helping out with the mixture directions. I really appreciate it

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

Ok. Just looked at the Fertilome 2,4d with dicamba.



It says it's a broadleaf killer. Isn't that what Celsius does as well? Am I not doubling up? Sorry if that's a dumb question. Just trying to learn.

My thoughts were Celsius for the broadleaf, Certainty for the grassy weeds.

 

[Ecks from Tex]

my SA has very few new weeds and several returning weeds that I cut down on each year. I really like my program. I will link it later if you're interested.

4 pre-emergent apps per year (2 prodiamine, 1 Pennant Magnum, 1 Dithiopyr)

1/2 post-emergent apps before April and 1 in the fall if necessary. I refuse to harm the grass past may with herbicide (Blindside, Celsius, Dismiss for landscape). I stay away from 2,4-D where possible; it really screws up my grass.

I also apply granular humates and have been dabbling in the N-Ext products for the last year with positive results.

Most recent pictures

 

[Ecks from Tex]

Also I was very much in your shoes two years ago; came into my house with a lawn full of weeds and an assortment of problems.

At this point I am worried a post emergent app will be too rough on your grass. My guess is others here will tell you to go for it, but I have had St Aug my entire life and I am telling you patience is a virtue with this grass in different ways than it is with Bermuda. You have to treat it like a child because it has a very soft head and could die easily. I was in your shoes and faced with the same decision you have in the early to middle part of May, so I opted to apply a watered down post-emergent with temps hovering around 85. It made no difference, my grass was stunted most of the summer. I regretted it and should have just stuck it out with the weeds during the summer and killed them off in the fall and applied a heavy dose of pre-emergent.

Bottom line is there are risks for all of your choices and you should prepare yourself to have a patchy lawn this summer. Good news is next February you are going to start out strong if you apply fall pre-emergent and a good fall fertilizer.

If it were me, I'd stick with the weeds I know for this summer as opposed to a bunch of patches that will possibly invite weeds I don't know. In my case, buttonweed, which manages to take over my lawn and destroy months of hard work every year.

But if you do apply, stick with Celsius - it's rated for higher temps.

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

Thanks Ecks. I was really hoping you would reply, being that you live so close. I actually looked at your program and have it saved from when I first stumbled upon this site a couple of weeks ago. Beautiful lawn (and pup!).

I'm about 45 mins from you here in Sulphur. As you know, it was 85 degrees here today (felt like 95 while I was on the baseball field coaching my sons team all day!!), and weekly forecast of lower 90's all week. With that being said, I think I'm going to take your advice and just sit on the weed control until the fall. 2,4d makes me nervous from the various things I've read, and especially now that I've seen your thoughts on it as well.

Is there anything I can do to help the St. Aug now in preparation for the fall though? Should I fertilize, or am I just feeding the weeds? Should I continue to water the lawn, or are the weeds too much competition and I'm just wasting my time and raising my water bill?

Anyways, thanks for listening to all my questions. Once again, I appreciate all your guys advice
A few things:
Lawnmower is an ExMark zero turn
Lot size is just under an acre (.85)
Zero shade, trees, or landscaping (unless you consider a rock bed around the perimeter of my house landscaping)

Are my calculations correct in saying that's around 37,000 sq ft? Take away the house, driveways, etc, and I'm dealing w/ about 30,000 sq ft of lawn? Does that sound like a lot to hand spray? (I have a 4 gallon backpack sprayer) By the looks of most of these liquids, most 1 gallon mixtures treat 1000 sq ft, so that means I'll be mixing up 7-8 backpacks if I'm broadcasting the lawn? Granular spreading seems like it would take MUCH less time to apply (but I'm absolutely willing to spray if it makes that much of a difference).

 

[SCGrassMan]

1.) Defer to him on STA as far as 2,4D. With large infestations of weeds I spray that and Celsius both at the Middle application rate.
2.) Granules (atrizine) will kill some weeds, and is easier to apply than spray. Celsius and 2,4D will kill them all.
3.) 30kSqFt is a lot to spray by hand. Most of us bought that $129 backpack sprayer on amazon. I'd pick one up and some TeeJet nozzles (Check the TeeJet nozzle thread for info on which ones) because you're going to be spraying your yard with things 3-6 times per year.
4.) fertilizer and weed kill. You're going to be feeding the grass to fill in and recover from the chemicals. The weeds are going to die so you're not going to be feeding them.

 

[Movingshrub]

Here are a few of maintenance calendar publications from universities in the south, incase it sparks other considerations.

Auburn
http://cses.auburn.edu/turfgrass-management/wp-content/uploads/sites/58/2017/01/St-Augustine-Lawn-Calendar-AL.pdf

Arkansas
https://www.uaex.edu/publications/pdf/FSA-6119.pdf

Florida
https://www.qbdfl.com/docs/manuals/YearlyCalendarFloratam.pdf

 

[Ecks from Tex]

Thanks Ecks. I was really hoping you would reply, being that you live so close. I actually looked at your program and have it saved from when I first stumbled upon this site a couple of weeks ago. Beautiful lawn (and pup!).

I'm about 45 mins from you here in Sulphur. As you know, it was 85 degrees here today (felt like 95 while I was on the baseball field coaching my sons team all day!!), and weekly forecast of lower 90's all week. With that being said, I think I'm going to take your advice and just sit on the weed control until the fall. 2,4d makes me nervous from the various things I've read, and especially now that I've seen your thoughts on it as well.

Is there anything I can do to help the St. Aug now in preparation for the fall though? Should I fertilize, or am I just feeding the weeds? Should I continue to water the lawn, or are the weeds too much competition and I'm just wasting my time and raising my water bill?

Anyways, thanks for listening to all my questions. Once again, I appreciate all your guys advice
A few things:
Lawnmower is an ExMark zero turn
Lot size is just under an acre (.85)
Zero shade, trees, or landscaping (unless you consider a rock bed around the perimeter of my house landscaping)

Are my calculations correct in saying that's around 37,000 sq ft? Take away the house, driveways, etc, and I'm dealing w/ about 30,000 sq ft of lawn? Does that sound like a lot to hand spray? (I have a 4 gallon backpack sprayer) By the looks of most of these liquids, most 1 gallon mixtures treat 1000 sq ft, so that means I'll be mixing up 7-8 backpacks if I'm broadcasting the lawn? Granular spreading seems like it would take MUCH less time to apply (but I'm absolutely willing to spray if it makes that much of a difference).

Nice man, there are a ton of people on his site from our area.

The general rule I follow on 2,4-D is I can apply it before April but not after. This is the same recommendation from the LSU Ag Extension, who recommends applying MSM in warmer weather (Blindside). But even that will stunt the SA in many occasions, and I don't like to risk it.

On your question of granular vs spray applications, you can choose either for pre-emergents but I would not recommend a granular post emergent. You want contact with the foliage or you are applying herbicide unnecessarily and ineffectively. With pre-em the entire point is to dissolve into the ground, so granular is fine. Stick with your backpack sprayer for the post-em. You could try a lithium backpack, but if I were you I would consider a push sprayer for Christmas (like the Earthway push sprayer or the one Conner Ward made for his Lesco broadcast spreader). It will hold more spray and cut down on your time spent.

There are several things I would be doing:

Instead of trying to do a broad spectrum weeed herbicide like you will do when temps cool, take targeted steps to reducing weeds over the summer.

- fertulize the hell out of your grass and cut it at 4 inches or higher. Thick and tall SA is by far your best weed control. It will kill out may of your weeds as it thrives this summer. Start with your basic turf fertilizer with 20 N or higher and apply it soon before temps get out of hand. Then, later this mont and into June, apply Milorganite at above bag rate (it will not burn in the summer heat). Then apply Milo again once fall nears. This will encourage max growth and choke out a lot of the broadleaf weeds like clover, dollar weed, etc.

- For the grassy weeds, get your hands on some Sedgehammer Plus and apply as soon as possible. Sedgehammer does not always have the kick that other applications do, but it is much easier on my grass and will only slightly yellow it. I would spot spray all the grass and broadleaf you can find with Sedgehammer within the next couple of weeks and then do a second spray 4 weeks after. It will help some.

- as for any broadleafs that you can't choke out (likely because they are too big), hand pull as many as you can while mowing.

- when you spray herbicide in the fall, make sure you do so while the grass is still growing.

- apply s good fall fertilizer (I like fertilome winterizer) so your grass gets a good start in the spring.

- apply another pre-emergent before June and then apply a fall pre-emergent application as well. You can normally only get two applications of Prodiamine in before exceeding your annual maximum, so you will likely need to find a different brand. I am applying Dithiropyr next month (Dimension).

 

[Alan]

Obey the 2,4D temp. restrictions especially on St. A.

 

[Ecks from Tex]

Obey the 2,4D temp. restrictions especially on St. A.

Yep. Quickest way I know to smoke your whole lawn :lol:

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

Thank you guys so much for the help.

If I do stay w/ a granular pre-emergent for now, any specific recommendations?

Also, any advantage to that push sprayer vs a pull behind Boom type sprayer?

 

[MasterMech]

Thank you guys so much for the help.

If I do stay w/ a granular pre-emergent for now, any specific recommendations?

Also, any advantage to that push sprayer vs a pull behind Boom type sprayer?

Do you have areas of your lawn that would require you to back into them first with a pull-behind? Unless you have wide open spaces, the push is much easier to maneuver.

 

[pintail45]

Agreed on all the 2,4-D temp warnings, get you some Celsius and geaux to town. That's all I'm going to be spraying until it cools off in the fall.

 

[Jeaux Bleaux]

Do you have areas of your lawn that would require you to back into them first with a pull-behind? Unless you have wide open spaces, the push is much easier to maneuver.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I wasn't even thinking about maneuvering around my fence. Thank you.

Alright, so I think I've come up with a plan of action and wanted to aske just a couple more questions.

I'm going to start with the fertilization. Ecks, you said to lay down another round of high nitrogen as soon as possible. Is that ok being that I just put down the Scotts Bonus S (2 weeks ago for the front and side yard, and 1 week ago for the back yard)? Or would that be too much, too soon? I will purchase some Milorganite to lay down at the beginning of June. That should be about 6 weeks from the initial Bonus S application. (Holy hell, a 36 lb bag only treats 2500 sq feet, which means I'll need to purchase 12 bags --My wife is going to end up hating my newfound lawn interest!)

My backyard is completely fenced in, and unable to be seen. So I thought that would be a good place for me to start attacking the weeds. If it browns, or i butcher it, I'm the only one that will have to look at it.

I'm going to broadcast spray it with Celsius and Certainty. I've read where these 2 are mixable. I'll also mix in a non-ionic Surfactant.
Question, is it too late to hit it with prodiamine? Or a waste at this point? I'm planning on spraying the entire yard Mid-September with it. If I should go ahead now, is it also mixable w/ the Certainty and Celsius?

If all goes well with the backyard, I'll do the same for the front and side yard Mid-September. I'll also add an application of the fertilome winterizer fertilizer at this point

I'll plan on doing another round of prodiamine in Mid to Late February.

Fertilize again with a high nitrogen based fertilizer in Mid April, Milorganite Mid June, Fertilome Winterizer & Prodiamine again Mid-September. Hopefully be able to spot spray the Celsius and Certainty by this point.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I've already put the push sprayer on my Christmas list!