[phil]

I bought my house last December, and I've done quite a bit to get the lawn in good shape this season. I'm still learning, so it's been a bit of trial and error and late starts when I discovered something I should have done earlier in the year. Nevertheless, I've seen fantastic improvements since we first looked at the house last fall. My current issues are related to thin grass due to shade, some issues with fungus, poa annua and poa triv, one area that continues to die every time I repair it, and the mix-match of grass types that looks *ok* but certainly not great (KBG, PRG, K31, Fine Fescue). Overall, though, neighbors and visitors always comment on how great the lawn looks and how weed free it is (if they only knew...)

My plan this fall:

1) spot spray with Sedgehammer this week

2) apply last curative application of Propiconazole next week

3) during the very last week of August, apply one light blanket spray of Triclopyr to nail the creeping charlie, clover, and poa that's starting back up (weeds are minimal so I wonder if I should cut this part out, plus I know it's not extremely effective on poa)

4) during the week of September 4, cut the grass down significantly (I mow at 3" - 4", so this mow will be half that height), then add a few inches of top soil to the 15x15 area in the corner that keeps having issues (getting 3 yards delivered)

5) same or next day power rake, double pass core aerate, and overseed at 5 pounds per 1,000 sq feet. I'll go heavier on the 15x15 area that has fresh topsoil

6) I'll make sure to put down high N starter when I reseed along with a light app of Milo - half the bag rate.

7) Irrigate properly (the hardest part for me since I do it manually with impact sprinkler)

8) put down last app of preventative Propiconazole in late September

8) follow up with Milo at full bag rate one month later in very early October

This is my idea, but I'm *very* open to suggestions and advice. I'm not married to anything here. I went back and forth on the Triclopyr app. Still not 100% sure if it's needed and if it's just going to stress the lawn unnecessarily. I'm also not 100% sure on what grass type to overseed with. I've had some good suggestions on TLF already, so right now I'm leaning toward overseeding with a shade-tolerant ***, though I've also heard to just stick with TTTF.

And lastly, I'm not doing any fall pre-emergent simply because of how much stress I'm pushing on the lawn along with the overseed. I know there are products I can use along with the overseed, but I wonder if I'm really pushing it and should just stay on top of the very small amount of active weeds now and be good about pre-M in the Spring.

Let me know what you think! I really appreciate your input, guys!

 

[g-man]

3) during the very last week of August, apply one light blanket spray of Triclopyr to nail the creeping charlie, clover, and poa that's starting back up (weeds are minimal so I wonder if I should cut this part out, plus I know it's not extremely effective on poa)

It is not effective against poa at all.

4) during the week of September 4, cut the grass down significantly (I mow at 3" - 4", so this mow will be half that height), then add a few inches of top soil to the 15x15 area in the corner that keeps having issues (getting 3 yards delivered)

Dont wait to September to lower the hoc. Start doing that gradually now (1/2in per week) and bag the clippings.

5) same or next day power rake, double pass core aerate, and overseed at 5 pounds per 1,000 sq feet. I'll go heavier on the 15x15 area that has fresh topsoil

What soil problem are you trying to address with aerate?

6) I'll make sure to put down high N starter when I reseed along with a light app of Milo - half the bag rate.

Avoid too much N/k when seeding. It will make the established lawn grow, so it will force you to mow while the new seeds could be too young for a mower.

I've had some good suggestions on TLF already, so right now I'm leaning toward overseeding with a shade-tolerant ***, though I've also heard to just stick with TTTF.

An overseed of *** is almost impossible to do. KBG could take up to 3 weeks to germinate and the established lawn wont let it develop.

And lastly, I'm not doing any fall pre-emergent simply because of how much stress I'm pushing on the lawn along with the overseed. I know there are products I can use along with the overseed, but I wonder if I'm really pushing it and should just stay on top of the very small amount of active weeds now and be good about pre-M in the Spring.

You can use tenacity to keep weeds undercontrol and prevent new germination while seeding/overseeding. That's the only available option other than doing nothing.

 

[MarkAguglia]

"An overseed of *** is almost impossible to do. KBG could take up to 3 weeks to germinate and the established lawn wont let it develop."

Im curious on this because I want to overseed my established lawn with KBG but am wondering how on earth ill be able to not mow for weeks. Especially after fertilizing.

 

[Fronta1]

"An overseed of *** is almost impossible to do. KBG could take up to 3 weeks to germinate and the established lawn wont let it develop."

Im curious on this because I want to overseed my established lawn with KBG but am wondering how on earth ill be able to not mow for weeks. Especially after fertilizing.

You could try gradually mowing it as low as possible, heavily dethatching, and apply a pgr.

 

[g-man]

Im curious on this because I want to overseed my established lawn with KBG but am wondering how on earth ill be able to not mow for weeks. Especially after fertilizing.

This was ericgautier approach, but also notice that he did not claim success or failure.

http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=899&p=16247#p16247

In the other forum a lot of seasoned folks (ie. HoosierLawnGnome) tried, and failed.

 

[phil]

This is some good advice, folks. Thank you.

I guess I'll be changing my plan to re-think the grass type I overseed with. I wanted to avoid straight PRG, so I'll look into TTTF or just a mix. Also, as far as aerating, I don't have any major compaction issues, but I want to just get the lawn to the next level and thought aerating in order to improve overall soil health would be a good part of that. No?

I definitely need to overseed since there are thin spots, and one side of my house is just terrible (I let it go because I'm about to do a big landscaping project there)

 

[Eric]

From what I've read/understand you only want to aerate if you have compaction issues. If you overseed after aeration and pull 2-3" cores either the majority of the seed with embed in a plug or drop down in a hole either of which isn't good because that seed may germinate but will quickly die off. Dethatching is a better option to expose as much soil surface as you can.

This is a hotly debated topic as there are those on both sides who can argue why one is better than the other.

Also let me add that aeration disturbs the soil and bring unwanted weed seeds to the surface!

 

[phil]

I've heard that quite a bit about the weeds. I figured it was still worth it though in order to get the benefits of aeration, but your other points make me wonder if I should skip it since I really don't have a bad compaction issue at all. I'll dethatch for sure and make sure to back off on the N when I overseed except for the appropriate starter for the new seed.

 

[MarkAguglia]

Is it advised to overseed a lawn without aeration?

 

[Fronta1]

If you really want to aerate, you can. There are the side effects that have already been mentioned but if you're willing to deal with those it will oxygenate your soil and give you an opportunity to incorporate something like peat or sand. It will also bring up more soil to the surface to improve germination if you seed. But if you do it before seeding fill them back in somehow. The seeds will likely be smothered.

 

[phil]

When I overseed I was planning to topdress with thin peat moss, so I think I've decided to skip the aeration this year. I see now that in my specific situation, it really doesn't provide much benefits since I don't have a soil compaction issue and my soil seems healthy.

 

[g-man]

In my opinon, for an overseed into an established lawn, there is no need to even use peat moss. The existing lawn will keep things moist.

 

[phil]

Oh interesting. I usually topdress with peat moss when I fix patches, and it really helps with germination a whole lot, so I just assumed that was the best way even for a total lawn overseed. I see your point, though.