[Deere Jr]

Hi all. I'm brand new to the forum as of today! Very glad to be here. I've been following the forum for a little while.

I am looking to do a pretty significant leveling/smoothing project next spring, and want to get my stuff in order. I have an established ***/rye lawn in central MN. It's average. Probably a bit below average by the standards here. It's a pretty thick canopy, however I keep the mowing height pretty high, like 3"+. It's a little more than 1 acre.

My primary goal is to get it much smoother than what it is now. It has become fairly bumpy when mowing. I would also like to level it to produce a more consistent surface, and possibly reduce my mowing height. I have read several posts on leveling/smoothing. Many of them are on a much smaller lawn.

What material to use? I am thinking play sand or top soil. Sand would likely spread much easier, but I'm not sure if the lack of organic material would pose a problem... I'm also wondering if I should do a layer of sand, followed by a layer of peat or compost?

For this size of project I will be using equipment I have access to, like a skid loader and 50hp tractor. The equipment I do NOT have, but would like to use are a large pto driven top dresser that can hold at least a couple yards of material, as well as a wide brush/drag (this is something I can just build if I have to). Where would I find a good sized top dresser to rent?

I have considered just taking a Harley rake to it, but I just don't want to. The lawn looks good, just uneven. I also have irrigation heads that would likely be damaged by that.

Thanks in advance for opinions and suggestions. Sorry for the "newbie" long post.

 

[cclaeys]

I'm new too so that makes me not very credible, but whatever.

I like to use sand, screened topsoil and compost mixed, not the cheap the fill kind of stuff (I get it for about $25 a yard just for reference, some of that stuff is like $100 a yard) - that works good for getting a decent grade. You will surprised how lumpy it is when you scalp it, a yard will disappear real quick in a low area.

Use sand for the finish, not on top, after you get some growth back in and subsequent years after it settles, usga spec if you can find it and it isnt ridiculous $ or masons sand, ask the local golf course super what they use and where they get it. I dont know about equipment, I like free exercise and feeling the product. I just use a pallet or some old chain link fence for a drag, add a cinder block or some weights if necessary.

I can tell you right now, equipment or not, it takes time and continued effort, its not a 1 and done deal.

 

[wardconnor]

I'm new too so that makes me not very credible, but whatever.

I like to use sand, screened topsoil and compost mixed, not the cheap the fill kind of stuff (I get it for about $25 a yard just for reference, some of that stuff is like $100 a yard) - that works good for getting a decent grade. You will surprised how lumpy it is when you scalp it, a yard will disappear real quick in a low area.

Use sand for the finish, not on top, after you get some growth back in and subsequent years after it settles, usga spec if you can find it and it isnt ridiculous $ or masons sand, ask the local golf course super what they use and where they get it. I dont know about equipment, I like free exercise and feeling the product. I just use a pallet or some old chain link fence for a drag, add a cinder block or some weights if necessary.

I can tell you right now, equipment or not, it takes time and continued effort, its not a 1 and done deal.

^^^^ I concur with what he said. I'm free labor for myself as well.

I do not concur with you not being credible just because you are new. This is silly.

 

[Deere Jr]

Thanks guys

cclaeys, when you say that you mix the different soils together, are YOU mixing them, or is the COMPANY you're buying them from doing it? Great info by the way. I think I understand the work involved. With having just over an acre to top dress and smooth, the equipment will be a huge help. I love the pallet idea!

Ward, I've watched your you tube videos. Thank you for those. You have an incredible lawn. If mine is half as good as yours, I'd be ecstatic!

 

[GoPre]

Welcome! I am newish myself.

It is my understanding that you DO NOT want to use play sand. You want to use a very coarse contractor or all purpose sand.

 

[wardconnor]

Welcome! I am newish myself.

It is my understanding that you DO NOT want to use play sand. You want to use a very coarse contractor or all purpose sand.

I have to say that I do not know what play sand is or what it looks like. I have sanded several times and I would say that sand with the consistency of powder would probably not be best. The sand I buy is screened to 1-2 mm. I personally do not think that it really matters a great deal as to what kind of sand you get as long as its screened and is pretty small and uniform. It needs to be workable and needs to be able to work itself down into the canopy of the grass with some persuasion .

As long its it does not have pebbles it in then I am betting it would be just fine. Get some masons sand for mortar or whatever you can that is screened.

 

[GoPre]

Welcome! I am newish myself.

It is my understanding that you DO NOT want to use play sand. You want to use a very coarse contractor or all purpose sand.

I have to say that I do not know what play sand is or what it looks like. I have sanded several times and I would say that sand with the consistency of powder would probably not be best. The sand I buy is screened to 1-2 mm. I personally do not think that it really matters a great deal as to what kind of sand you get as long as its screened and is pretty small and uniform. It needs to be workable and needs to be able to work itself down into the canopy of the grass with some persuasion .

As long its it does not have pebbles it in then I am betting it would be just fine. Get some masons sand for mortar or whatever you can that is screened.

I am absolutely no expert. My understanding is that play sand (or fine) will not bind with the existing soil and may even change the soil structure if enough is used. May create a problem with drainage or run-off. Coarse sand will bind and eventually break down (or transform) into the current structure. Agreed that whatever you use it should be screened!

Again, that's my layman's understanding. I look forward to everyone's opinion!

 

[zeus201]

Good luck!

I am gonna attempt the same and starting my search for screened sand. Biggest part I am worried about is the dragging 8k sq ft of turf with man power. Need to find a friend with a small lawn tractor or 4 wheeler.

 

[Deere Jr]

Thanks for the replies.

I have had both "play sand" and mason sand delivered for different projects. Mason sand is much finer. It also compacts harder, which is why I was worried about using it. It's kind of like beach sand. "Play sand", as I know it as, is coarser but does not compact. It stays loose, even when rained on for days.

To do an acre at 1/4" I would need about 50 yards I think. That's 4 dump truck loads. I'm planning on having it delivered while the ground is froze. The trucks can drive without making ruts. It it will be dumped on a meadow area about 40 feet away from my lawn.

 

[Ware]

FWIW, most of us on the warm season side use masonry sand to level.

 

[wardconnor]

Golf sand

https://youtu.be/uiB0FsXsYvM

 

[cclaeys]

Thanks guys

cclaeys, when you say that you mix the different soils together, are YOU mixing them, or is the COMPANY you're buying them from doing it? Great info by the way. I think I understand the work involved. With having just over an acre to top dress and smooth, the equipment will be a huge help. I love the pallet idea!

i dont mix anything except cocktails and even those I like premixed in a can. I have a guy that delivers the stuff premixed from a local place, I have been working on this new yard and landscape for 3 years and it still looks like hell. There are 2 paradigms, homeowners want a golf course look without the work. The difference is that golf courses want it firm, fast and good drainage. We lawnamanics try and accomplish both with half the effort.

I wish I had equipment, but the slope doesn't support it. I dont sweat the pebbles, dig down a foot around here and you are into basketball sized boulders, but I am not into the reel mowing phase for awhile.

It is all a big experiment, science is right until the next guy proves it worng. Stick around, I will and lets do it together!

How about the substrate (existing layer), is that healthy?

 

[Deere Jr]

LOL'd about the cocktails

The current soil is about a foot of good black dirt, followed by sand and some rocks. Very well draining. Sometimes too well. However, I do get some mushrooms if I water too often. I have an irritating system that is fed by the Mississippi River (i'm in central mn where it's still nice and clean).

Grass does well. Tends to scalp easily in the middle of summer if not irrigated enough.

 

[cclaeys]

i have irrigation water too, sometimes I wish I didnt because it seems to address a problem that isnt and most of the time it looks horrible and is very alkaline. I had a 100 micron filter but there was so much sediment that the flow choked out.