[Hyna32]

Hi - First time caller, long time listener to the forum We live in the SW suburbs of Chicago and I've been slowly rehabing my lawn for 4 yrs now. We moved in 2013, the home/lawn is now 25yrs old, 0.75 acre lot, ~24k sq ft (0.5 acre) of lawn - essentially a bag of NoMix. I've spent quite a bit of time on the NTEP results pages, Reno forums, and pre/post emergent care sites to get educated and caught up on the latest cultivars, practices etc. I have a Toro ZTM 5030 and Timecutter 30".

I just performed a few soil tests in Nov, since I top dressed (50/50 topsoil & compost @ 0.25") the lot over Labor Day.
1. @3-4in
2. @0-6in
3. Soil Structure (0-6in)

Looking to do a rehab or reno in 2018 with KBG (preferably Midnight/Bewitched mix or Bewitched mono) and would appreciate any feedback on the soil, as well as another comments. I'll be sure to update the thread as I progress. Many thanks every one!

*Ok to post soil results here or is a particular thread preferred?*

Regards - JGH

 

[g-man]

Posting here is fine. In my experience, chicago soils are normally really good.

I recommend against a 22k sqft reno all at once. I most of the time recommend against a reno until you get the lawn basics nailed down. These include: spray applications (Tenacity, Herbicides, etc) and irrigation approach for the area (even coverage). Once you could get your NoMix looking awesome, then you are ready to kill it and do a reno. We are here to help, so ask questions and advice as needed.

A great thread to look at is Pete1313. He is close to chicago and just did a large reno to kbg monostand. Pay attention to all the details he worked on prior to the actual kill. Pete1313 Reno

 

[ken-n-nancy]

Posting here is fine. In my experience, chicago soils are normally really good.

I recommend against a 22k sqft reno all at once. I most of the time recommend against a reno until you get the lawn basics nailed down. These include: spray applications (Tenacity, Herbicides, etc) and irrigation approach for the area (even coverage). Once you could get your NoMix looking awesome, then you are ready to kill it and do a reno. We are here to help, so ask questions and advice as needed.

A great thread to look at is Pete1313. He is close to chicago and just did a large reno to kbg monostand. Pay attention to all the details he worked on prior to the actual kill. Pete1313 Reno

+1 on the above.

Yeah, every time I see an Illinois soil posting, I'm reminded of why, in the early 1800s, vast numbers of New Hampshire farmers moved to the midwest and many NH farms were simply abandoned.

 

[Hyna32]

Posting here is fine. In my experience, chicago soils are normally really good.

I recommend against a 22k sqft reno all at once. I most of the time recommend against a reno until you get the lawn basics nailed down. These include: spray applications (Tenacity, Herbicides, etc) and irrigation approach for the area (even coverage). Once you could get your NoMix looking awesome, then you are ready to kill it and do a reno. We are here to help, so ask questions and advice as needed.

A great thread to look at is Pete1313. He is close to chicago and just did a large reno to kbg monostand. Pay attention to all the details he worked on prior to the actual kill. Pete1313 Reno

Thnx g-man, appreciate it. Yes, I've followed Pete1313's post. He used a Bewitched mono-stand and I want to say he's in McHenry Co. so not too far. Frankly his post has been a staple in my research. I've dabbled with glyphosate for spot and edge work. I should mention I will have help from a local landscape/hardscape firm I've worked with in the past when I do execute but not likley a full reno at once. Since posting earlier, I came across mightyquinn's soil overview, and it answered a few of my questions. I can't upload the pics since they are from my desktop. Any photo sharing sites folks are using?

Thanks!

 

[Pete1313]

Welcome to TLF fellow northern IL member! I'm actually a bit further west in Ogle County now, but grew up in the NW suburbs of Chicago as well as my last 2 homes were in the NW 'burbs. You should have great soil structure being near Chicago. My last home had a nice silt loam with 70% silt. Wish I had that soil compared to the clay loam that is in the NW part of our state.

I see you are looking to reno with KBG. Tell us more about your yard. Sunny or shady with alot of trees? What do you dislike about the northern mix? How intensely do you plan to manage the new lawn and at what height of cut? I agree with g-man, make sure you have the basics down before upgrading to an all KBG lawn. Not only will it test your patience when establishing, but since it is a slow starter you will need to be on top of herbicides like Tenacity and have a strong Pre-m plan after it starts establishing as weeds will have plenty of opportunity until it fills in. With bewitched being a very dark cultivar grassy weeds such as poa annua will now become very obvious.

Thanks for following my reno. I look forward to following yours and seeing your soil tests. Most here use postimages.org to load pics and there should be a link right at the bottom of the text box when replying.

 

[Hyna32]

Hi Pete1313, thnx for the feedback. Soil is 74%-21%-5% silt clay sand, but I feel my Mn and Mg is high as well as pH. Presuming we can all agree 'full sun' 6+hrs, 85% of my property would fall into that category easily, with the remaining 10% shade between two tall Maple trees (pruned this yr) and 5% as partial shade alongside of the house when the sun is on the opposite end. I don't dislike my Northern mix too much, however I would prefer uniformity, richer color, wear tolerance and of course self healing/spreading rhizomes. Having a lawn with a single or a few cultivars I'd be able to mitigate and control the outcomes better. As far as care goes I have the time and expectation to feed and treat the lawn at a high maintenance or NTEP sch A, except for the height..I'd mow 2.5 to 3".

AA: Ammonium Acetate

Hope the photos posted this time!

JGH

 

[Ridgerunner]

That'sa nice soil. Other than a little phosphorous shortage and the higher pH, just about perfection unless you want to go OCD on balancing the major cations. What is the soil tilth and percolation (drainage) like?

 

[Hyna32]

@Ridgerunner - appreciate the feedback...at this point I think I'm best served striving to introduce more OM. I put down 15yrds of topsoil compost mix in early September (soil analysis had it at ~25% OM) which I feel will help and/or continue to to help as it gets deeper into the soil. Tillage is great from where I sit, its pliable enough to hold shape but easily breaks into sizable chunks when pressed. The previous 3 owners always had a lawn service, but the owner whom preceded me had only 'green' and organic fertilizers applied which was a big help. No standing water or drainage issue to note, even in the lower spots. That being said, I feel I've got a good lot of soil, with some opportunities for leveling and grading but overall, a solid foundation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

With good tillage and drainage, IMO, no reason to chase the major cations. However, you might want to read the section about magnesiumotassium ratios in my thread in the FAQs Forum, just for future use if the turf shows any potassium deficiency issues. You can also use the formulas in that thread to calculate a total phosphorous addition that you can spread/apply over the next year or two.
Let me know if you can't decipher my gibberish and I'll do my best to clarify, There is a plethora of people here that can give great advice on a reno, including alternative techniques, "best practices", and save you some headaches.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to give you the formula for converting Logan Labs reported phosphorous to ppm:
LL reported value of P/2/2.3 = ppm

 

[Hyna32]

Excellent! Thank you Ridgerunner - I'll check it out now!

JGH

 

[Ridgerunner]

Jeff,
I was looking at your soil test again and noticed that LL reports the depth of the test done with ammonium acetate (AA) at 4" rather than your stated depth of 6". In order to correctly calculated ppm, you will need to multiply the reported poundage of P2O5 by a factor of 1.5 (correcting from a 4" depth to a 6" depth).
70lbs P2O5 X1.5 /2 /2.3 = 23 ppm. (which to can compare to the Melich III sufficiency range table.)
Comparing the results from both test, it appears that LL may have used the 3-4" sample for both tests.
Is that your understanding of what was done or did I misread your first post?

 

[Hyna32]

Ridgerunner, excellent catch - I really do appreciate your interpretation! Full disclosure, I had (3)tests done. 1. At inch 3 to 4, then 2. 0-6in, and 3. Soil structure from 0-6in, overkill I know

Here is the 0-6in results

 

[Ridgerunner]

That's a lot of testing.
With the LL test at 6" you can use the first formula without the depth conversion factor for ppm determination for P.
The other major cations (Ca, Mg and K) can be converted to ppm simply by dividing by 2.
That way you can compare your values to recommended values in the chart for Mehlich III extraction in the aforementioned thread.
Any questions, feel free.

 

[Hyna32]

So it began....

I took the leap and committed to a Spring Reno. I applied a couple of glyphosate apps in March when the days actually got above 60 and began the seed bed prep in mid April. I've been living all-things-turf since last fall trying to get educated, assemble resources and plan. Below is a snapshot of what I've done thus far, beginning in September 2017. As of today, 5/13 (Day 22) I have quite a bit of germination and am essentially ~7 days behind many of Fall Reno updates I've studied. Which makes sense considering the first 7 days since seed down (4/21) for me had less than ideal soil temps, but by Day 7 through today, I've been very fortunate to have great soil temps day and night.

Notable shout-outs to @Pete1313, @wardconnor, @Ware, @g-man @GrassDaddy, @Ridgerunner, SuperSeedStore Drew K, Penn State Extension (Peter Landschoot), countless YouTube vids, and plenty of hours on this site I may not have had direct contact with the aforementioned but their postings and updates have been invaluable to me and by continually referencing their material and processes was the only way any of this would have even been possible for me. To that, many thanks - Cheers!

End Game: Bewitched monostand (50lbs), ~24K sq ft

2017
Equip: Toro 50" ZTM w/ cart. Toro 30" push mower. My labor

9/14 Mowed low @ 2". Dethatched Lawn. Raked turf/debris (yield 14 refuse bags).
9/15 Aerated. Delivery 15yds of 75% Compost, 25% Topsoil mix (Analysis: 25.9% OM, 7.9pH). Began distributing compost/soil mix. Raked it in.
9/17 Completed compost/soil mix application. Full water irrigation cycle

2018
Equip: Toro 50" ZTM w/ cart. Toro 30" push mower. Gregson-Clark Spreader-Mate A (modified). Turf Teq Power Rake (rented). Toro Dingo (rented). Midwest Landscape Rake 36". My labor

3/18 1st Nuke App
3/26 Well & Irrigation adjustments (new well pump). Combining 2 irrigation rotor zones into 1. LL Property Soil Analysis Results (10 plugs @ 3-4" depth: 7.47% OM, 7.1 pH)
3/28 2nd Nuke App
3/30 Outsourced Landscape ground cover/bush removal, trimming. Outline new patio design
4/13 Scalp & Bag (yield 9 refuse bags)

Took a week's VAC to complete the rest
4/16 Rental: Turf Teq Power Rake (~0.5" deep)
4/17 Con't Power Raking. Dragged property in the PM
4/18 Con't Drag Mat + Hand rake turf/debris (yield 10 refuse bags). 14yds of 20yds Topsoil/Compost mix delivered. (Analysis: 5.81% OM, 7.5 pH) Covered w/trap in advance of snow.
4/19 AM Snowfall, setback. Waiting to melt/dry. Refuse pickup (19 bags). Begun applying soil mix to hell strips, hand raking/leveling
4/20 Toro Dingo rental for soil mix loading. Con't applying soil mix to property, hand raking/leveling. Final 6yds of 20yds soil mix delivered
4/21 Finish applying soil mix, complete hand raking/leveling property
Seed down (PM)
50lbs of Bewitched (SuperSeedStore - Drew K)
(2) bags Soil Moist
~90lbs of Starter Fert (16-28-12 with Armament ZnB, 30% PSCU by ATS)
3.0oz/acre tenacity
Raked in seeds
Rolled
Full watering, 12 zones (rotor zones doubled up to equal 8 total)
4/22 Watering Schedule: 3-4 times a day, rotor zones 7-10mins + spray zones 3-5min. Daily manual tweaking
4/29 Day 8: Handful of germinating seeds
5/3 Day 12: Significant germination, photo worthy. Some relief
5/10 Day 19: More and more germination, every day
5/12-13: Heavy downpours missed! ~0.75" (Forecast called for 2.5")

May:Consider AS/SRN applications/fungicides/fertilizer(s). Break ground for patio overhaul. Rachio 3 w/ Flow meter
June: Mow @ 2-2.5". Note Progress, evaluate, consider AS/SRN & fert applications. Tenacity.

Post Kill pics








Scalp and Turf Teq










Snow Delay




Soil Spreading/Dingo/Daddy's Helper. I'm rockin the TLF hat!














Seed Down 4/21


Day 22 (comparable to Day 15)
















Open soil area: Ripped out all boxwoods, roses, ground cover for new plantings.


Orange Paint outlines patio expansion




Problem Area1: Constant wash out. Reseed? Wait? TBD


Problem Area2: Upper left corner, constant puddling. Swamp


Weekly progress to follow, thanks for browsing.

 

[wardconnor]

Thanks Jeff. Happy to help you. My vote is to throw some seed down. Your project is a ton of work but looks fun to me.

Do you have a cylinder mower? I might have missed that.

 

[Hyna32]

Thnx Connor, I was leaning toward throwing down. I snagged a 20" Scott's push reel mower off Craigslist this week. I'll need to sharpen the blades before using. Short term plan is to only use it for the first 2-4 mowings then move up to my 30" Toro Time Master. I also have a 50" zero turn that I could use. Next year is when I'll decide whether to to invest in a cylinder mower and begin going low HOC.

 

[jha4aamu]

Posting here is fine. In my experience, chicago soils are normally really good.

I recommend against a 22k sqft reno all at once. I most of the time recommend against a reno until you get the lawn basics nailed down. These include: spray applications (Tenacity, Herbicides, etc) and irrigation approach for the area (even coverage). Once you could get your NoMix looking awesome, then you are ready to kill it and do a reno. We are here to help, so ask questions and advice as needed.

A great thread to look at is Pete1313. He is close to chicago and just did a large reno to kbg monostand. Pay attention to all the details he worked on prior to the actual kill. Pete1313 Reno

i thought about starting another thread with similar questions but happend to come across this one. But I've noticed that alot of cool season guys are doing renos w/ Bewitched monostands and wondering what the rationale was to that vs other KBG varieties? I am strongly considering doing a fall reno this year and wanted to do either Mazama or Midnight monostand but didnt know if that was advisable.

 

[g-man]

Go ahead and start a thread. You will get more attention to your question that way. Is your question around monostand or more why Bewitched vs. mazama vs midnight?

 

[jha4aamu]

Go ahead and start a thread. You will get more attention to your question that way. Is your question around monostand or more why Bewitched vs. mazama vs midnight?

a little of both. esp since i have about 25lbs of mazama and midnight in my garage that I'd like to use. ill start that thread though and see if i can get some more insight. thanks

 

[Hyna32]

Day 28 - Moving along nicely.