[Fronta1]

I'm pretty happy with the results for the most part. Just would like to raise my ph and calcium levels a little, so I'm thinking of adding some calcitic lime, which is what the recommendations suggest as well. As for p and k, I can just incorporate a little into my fertilizer. Any other suggestions? Thanks

 

[ericgautier]

MQ wrote this article How to interpret a Logan Labs Soil Report, worth a read. You might be able to incorporate it into your plans.

For PH, definitely a good calcitic lime. From what I learned in the past... 9lbs/k (90 days apart) is a good start.

 

[Virginiagal]

The Logan test uses Mehlich 3 extractant. A&L is using Bray for phosphorus. A&L's recommendations should be fine, no need for further interpretation. Your pH is great as is. 6.2 is the target pH for VA Tech. Some lime, as A&L suggests, will be fine but it could be skipped. If you have trouble finding fertilizer with enough potassium, you could look for potassium sulfate (0-0-50) to supplement..

 

[g-man]

Fronta1, could I ask your location within Indiana (near major town)? Your results are not typical for most of indiana.

 

[Fronta1]

Fronta1, could I ask your location within Indiana (near major town)? Your results are not typical for most of indiana.

Northwest near the Michigan border. Our neighbor told us a bunch of black dirt was brought in when the house was built, which is what it looked like when I took the samples. We also irrigate with water from a very healthy pond.

 

[g-man]

^ I was going to guess Merrillville or Valparaiso.

Normally we have a high pH due to all the limestone. Adding more lime to the lawns in Indiana is not typical. The corner near Chicago doesn't have that much lime, but I think the dirt being delivered answers it. I'm a bit jealous.

 

[Fronta1]

Well for what it's worth I really appreciate what we have. Between the dirt and the free pond water you can't ask for much more. I know there's a big quarry to our west and at my aunt's house near Indy you could make a clay pot out of her dirt.

 

[ABC123]

Remember to keep lime and any N apps at least 3 weeks apart.

 

[monty]

Remember to keep lime and any N apps at least 3 weeks apart.

Why is that?

 

[kolbasz]

http://blog.pennlive.com/gardening/2014/09/can_lime_and_fertilizer_go_on.html

 

[monty]

http://blog.pennlive.com/gardening/2014/09/can_lime_and_fertilizer_go_on.html

Thanks! Great tip

 

[Ridgerunner]

Good Evening Frontal,
I'm a bit late posting.

Nice soil. Very nice OM values.
FYI:
Recommended desired Phosphorous values as measured by Bray P1 (weak Bray) should fall between 22 and 33 ppm.
For every 1# of P2O5 (P2O5 is the form of phosphorous that will be found in any fertilizer containing Phosphorous) that you add per one thousand sq feet of soil, your Bray P1 test should show and increase of 9.5 ppm. e.g. Adding two pounds of P2O5 to your back yard which has a current P level of 18 ppm will increase total P to 37 ppm. (In the ideal world, of course )

Potassium levels that fall below 40 ppm, have been shown to result in poorly performing turf. To achieve recommended sufficient Potassium levels test levels should exceed 110 ppm (as measured by Mehlich 3, which is the recommended major cation extractant for the North Central Region per NCR No. 221 that Great Lakes states that they employ). The "optimum" range for Potassium can fall between 110 and 180-200 ppm. For every pound of K2O (K2O being the form of potassium found in fertilizers) that you add to 1000 sq feet of soil, your test values for K should raise by 18 ppm.

As Becky mentioned, your pH values should create no impediment to healthy, attractive turf. I personally like to keep mine just south of 6.5 for balanced micronutrient availability and enhancing the microbral environment. (Admittedly, + or -.04 probably doesn't make much difference to either). However, although studies don't show much impact on plant health and performance, Ca:Mg ratios do appear to have an influence of soil tilth/texture. The ideal ratio falls between 7-10:1 (depending on who you believe). Your soils Ca:Mg ratio is less than 5:1, so I agree with your desire to increase your calcium and Ca:Mg ratio. If you're going to add calcium, you might as well do that via lime and address pH adjustment. Keep in mind that adjusting one major cation (Ca) will most assuredly effect the others as a % of base (Mg, K and Na). You will not want to allow Mg levels to fall below 140 ppm sufficiency levels and certainly not below 50ppm levels that can adversely affect turf health and quality.
Hope that is at least some small help in your decision process.

 

[Fronta1]

Good Evening Frontal,
I'm a bit late posting.

Nice soil. Very nice OM values.
FYI:
Recommended desired Phosphorous values as measured by Bray P1 (weak Bray) should fall between 22 and 33 ppm.
For every 1# of P2O5 (P2O5 is the form of phosphorous that will be found in any fertilizer containing Phosphorous) that you add per one thousand sq feet of soil, your Bray P1 test should show and increase of 9.5 ppm. e.g. Adding two pounds of P2O5 to your back yard which has a current P level of 18 ppm will increase total P to 37 ppm. (In the ideal world, of course )

Potassium levels that fall below 40 ppm, have been shown to result in poorly performing turf. To achieve recommended sufficient Potassium levels test levels should exceed 110 ppm (as measured by Mehlich 3, which is the recommended major cation extractant for the North Central Region per NCR No. 221 that Great Lakes states that they employ). The "optimum" range for Potassium can fall between 110 and 180-200 ppm. For every pound of K2O (K2O being the form of potassium found in fertilizers) that you add to 1000 sq feet of soil, your test values for K should raise by 18 ppm.

As Becky mentioned, your pH values should create no impediment to healthy, attractive turf. I personally like to keep mine just south of 6.5 for balanced micronutrient availability and enhancing the microbral environment. (Admittedly, + or -.04 probably doesn't make much difference to either). However, although studies don't show much impact on plant health and performance, Ca:Mg ratios do appear to have an influence of soil tilth/texture. The ideal ratio falls between 7-10:1 (depending on who you believe). Your soils Ca:Mg ratio is less than 5:1, so I agree with your desire to increase your calcium and Ca:Mg ratio. If you're going to add calcium, you might as well do that via lime and address pH adjustment. Keep in mind that adjusting one major cation (Ca) will most assuredly effect the others as a % of base (Mg, K and Na). You will not want to allow Mg levels to fall below 140 ppm sufficiency levels and certainly not below 50ppm levels that can adversely affect turf health and quality.
Hope that is at least some small help in your decision process.

Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I'm a detail kind of guy so I very much appreciate all the info I can get. I will definitely refer back to this in the future. I am probably going to add some lime later this year and start using "fall" fertilizer with extra k in it year round. When I eventually get around to renovating, I'm hoping a couple apps of starter fertilizer will help my p, too.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Great Lakes is recommending 4#/k in the front and 5#/k of potassium in the back. Most loaded K winterizers will supply only 1/3# of K per app. You may want to shop around or consider a Triple NPK for a couple of apps, especially in the back.

 

[Fronta1]

Ok are there any specific products you recommend for my potassium apps? Thanks.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ok do you have any recommendations for my potassium apps? Muriate of potash, sulfate of potash? Monopotassium phosphate? Are there granular or is it a powder? And then are there any compatibility issues with lime or fertilizer? Any compatibility issues with seeding? Thanks.

Sulfate of potash would be preferred. It has a lower salt index. No need to add any possible increase in water uptake stress if it can be avoided. Also sulfate is more useful to plants than chloride. Although SOP is available in powder form, you'll want pelleted.

The calcium from lime and the potassium will compete for cation sites and calcium will almost always win. Best to put lime down some time after potassium. There are no issues of compatibility in applying potassium and nitrogen or phosphorous fertilizers.

I'm aware of no issues between potassium and seeding,

Recommend that you not apply any fertilizer nutrient at a rate greater than 1#/month (other than lime) at a time and that you apply the lime as the last thing you do before winter. Try to do it 2 weeks after any other prior fertilizer application.

Hope I didn't step on VG;s toes while she is out of town.

You are welcome.

 

[Fronta1]

Ok thx. Your knowledge is evident. I will probably try to do lime in one big app at the end is the year since there's no harm in too much.
I may try to alternate n and k apps as to reduce burn potential. Maybe that's why the big boxes don't sell them like that? Just curious.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A couple of things for clarification:

I'm a lawn hobbyist like most here. I got a bit OCD with lawn care and soil chemistry and over the last number of years , especially the last 5 since retirement, I have done quite a bit of internet research trying my best to understand it. I have no degree or background in agronomy or any of the sciences. My background was in the law. Consequently, my need to understand "why and how" is often limited by my skill set. I post to wile (while?) away some spare time when I have it. My intent is to pass along information I've collected to others for them to employ as they see fit. I try to be accurate and identify when I'm giving my opinion vs a researched "fact," but I do get sloppy at times.
If my posts can help someone save "google" time or help them to consider doing more research before proceeding with an action that may create a problem for them, then great. If not, sorry to waste your time.

I will probably try to do lime in one big app at the end is the year since there's no harm in too much.

A few very conservative. university turf specialists recommend a maximum ag-lime rate of no more than 25# per application with a 100# annual maximum. Most specialists recommend a maximum aglime rate of no more than 50# per application with a 100# annual maximum. It would be inaccurate to assume that there is no maximum level of lime application that could be detrimental. In your case, 30# and 10# are well below the 50#/k recommended maximums.

I may try to alternate n and k apps as to reduce burn potential. Maybe that's why the big boxes don't sell them like that? Just curious.

That's fine but almost never necessary as it's very unlikely that combining would cause burn at recommended application rates. N, P and K are commonly combined in fertilizers. My prior point was that if MOP isn't going to provide any additional benefit over SOP, why not use the one with a lower salt index? Stores stock what sells to their customer base, not because of salt indexes. Site One/Lesco has a professional base that includes golf course managers, so they do sell such products as 15-0-15.