[ctrav]

Hi all. I still have not purchased a new mower!

Here is a question that I haven't found a good answer to in searching old threads: how does the Toro Personal Pace work when you need to pull backwards? Say I'm mowing up to the house, flower bed or another object and need to do several back and forths. On my mower and on a Honda, you just disengage the self propel a couple feet before you need to reverse (just push it manually the last couple feet to allow the self propel mechanism to disengage so you can roll the wheels backward).

On the Personal Pace, you cannot disengage PP and still push the mower forward because the self propel mechanism is in the handle. So how do you get right up to an object, then reverse? Does the self propel disengage and the wheels roll backwards smoothly or does it lock up?

I am not interested in the Powereverse model. I don't like the idea of a mower coming at my feet.

I just push down on the handle to raise the front end and back up. I also raise the front end when reversing my course. This keeps or helps to eliminate the "swirls" on my lawn since it needs leveling...

 

[Green]

@CPA Nerd, I ended with a Toro, non-Personal Pace finally. Honda engine. So best of both worlds.

I can easily disengage the self propel with the standard handle, even when going forward, unlike the Personal Pace handle. With either handle, the self propel stops soon after you disengage the handle. With the personal pace, you actually have to stop pushing to do that, and let the handle go back to its default position. As it does so, the mower may roll forward a couple more inches.

Note that turning and lifting up the front wheels is tougher with a large set of reset wheels. The balance is totally different than with small wheels.

 

[kaptain_zero]

Personal Pace handle is above the regular handle. If you want to push forward a tiny bit in a manual mode (I need to quite often on my small lot), I just drop my thumbs to the regular handle underneath the personal pace handle and twist my wrists to pull back and disengage the PP system, allowing me to do whatever I need to do. While my explanation may seem involved.... it really isn't and becomes second nature. Once I've pushed forward or pulled back what I need to do, I just put my thumbs back up on the PP handle and start walking.

 

[CPA Nerd]

@CPA Nerd, I ended with a Toro, non-Personal Pace finally. Honda engine. So best of both worlds.

I can easily disengage the self propel with the standard handle, even when going forward, unlike the Personal Pace handle. With either handle, the self propel stops soon after you disengage the handle. With the personal pace, you actually have to stop pushing to do that, and let the handle go back to its default position. As it does so, the mower may roll forward a couple more inches.

Note that turning and lifting up the front wheels is tougher with a large set of reset wheels. The balance is totally different than with small wheels.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you prefer this to the Personal Pace? Which model Toro has a Honda engine without Personal Pace?

 

[CPA Nerd]

Personal Pace handle is above the regular handle. If you want to push forward a tiny bit in a manual mode (I need to quite often on my small lot), I just drop my thumbs to the regular handle underneath the personal pace handle and twist my wrists to pull back and disengage the PP system, allowing me to do whatever I need to do. While my explanation may seem involved.... it really isn't and becomes second nature. Once I've pushed forward or pulled back what I need to do, I just put my thumbs back up on the PP handle and start walking.

Thanks. So you have to essentially switch handles? With my current mower, I just release my finger from the self propel when I'm a couple feet away from where I'll need to back up. When you pull back on the PP, you do it with the regular handle, not the PP handle, correct? Doesn't that turn the mower off, though? I'm missing something. How do you keep the mower on, but disengage personal pace and use in "non-self propelled" mode?

 

[quattljl]

The Toro PP system has a fixed handle just like any other push mower. The personal pace handle/mechanism is attached to this fixed handle and slides forwards as you walk. The retractable start lever is attached to the personal pace mechanism so you hold it and the personal pace handle while it runs. Take a look at the 360* pictures of a personal pace mower on any site that sells them and it will all make sense. Pretty much the only time I need to even touch the fixed part of the handle is when starting it.

To reverse with the mower, you simply stop walking and pull the mower backwards. The PP handle is spring loaded so if you aren't actively pushing on it (like what happens when you're moving forward) the handle returns to the neutral position and the mower stops moving. There is no additional movement of the personal pace handle in the reverse direction as you pull it back.

 

[kaptain_zero]

The photo shows how you hold the personal pace handle. Imagine just dropping your thumbs down to the handle below and using them to push the mower forward for a few inches in tight spots without motor assist. You can pull the mower backwards with the personal pace handle. I find I prefer personal pace as it moves the mower as fast as I wish to walk.... no having to "keep up with it" like I have to with other styles. I also believe I saw a recent LCN video where his Honda mower would leave clippings behind instead of mulching them completely, but it was difficult situation and yet the Toro Super Recycler mulched it all with no trace left on the grass.

There is no one perfect mower for everyone.... but there is a perfect mower for you.

 

[TNTurf]

I have been using Honda mowers with hydrostatic transmissions for just over 20 years now. You set your top speed, pull the handle all the way and it goes the speed you set. When going around something you let off the handle a bit and it slows. The drive wheels are on the rear. I also get the one with the blade clutch. You start the engine but the blade does not start until you pull the handle. So, if you bag you can leave the mower running while you empty the bag which you cant do with a mower that spins the blade full time. I have no idea how long it would take to wear down the body of the mower, it is a poly of some kind that I think must last forever. The metal parts will go way before it does.

That said. The hydrostatic transmission is not serviceable and slows over time. The mower I have now is on full speed and just fast enough that I am not complaining yet. I will in a year or two. The auto choke on the engine, for me anyhow, has been a feature I can do without. My HRB216 didn't have that and we go along great. The part that is the issue can be swapped pretty easy but bummer you might have to do it.

I have no experience with the Toro Rotary but know they make a lot of great products. I would be willing to try one but probably never will since I have had Honda so long and will go Honda again when its time to replace this one.

 

[CPA Nerd]

The photo shows how you hold the personal pace handle. Imagine just dropping your thumbs down to the handle below and using them to push the mower forward for a few inches in tight spots without motor assist. You can pull the mower backwards with the personal pace handle. I find I prefer personal pace as it moves the mower as fast as I wish to walk.... no having to "keep up with it" like I have to with other styles. I also believe I saw a recent LCN video where his Honda mower would leave clippings behind instead of mulching them completely, but it was difficult situation and yet the Toro Super Recycler mulched it all with no trace left on the grass.

There is no one perfect mower for everyone.... but there is a perfect mower for you.

Ah, I get it now. I am dumb. Thank you.

So basically, I'd mow right up to the flower bed, for example, stop, the PP handle disengages/comes back up, basically even with the static handle, and since the PP handle is back up (not engaged), my thumbs are right next to the static handle and I can push down/forward on it with my thumbs to push the mower forward while not engaging PP at all.

Such a tough decision. I like being able to just push a lever on the mower and go such as with a Honda, but I also like the idea of "just walking" with the PP and having more of a leisure mow. I have heard people's thumbs get sore with Honda Smart Drive, but I really wouldn't know until I mow with it.

 

[ericgautier]

The Toro 20332 was my first mower and loved it (my brother has it now and it still mows awesome). The Personal Pace system is easy to use. No knobs or levers to worry about. The only thing I wished I sprung for when I bought it was the blade stop model especially when/if you are bagging.

 

[driver_7]

Get the HRX model with the blade stop if you go Honda. I bought an HRR when I didn't know any better, but wanted a Honda. You won't regret the HRX.

 

[CPA Nerd]

Get the HRX model with the blade stop if you go Honda. I bought an HRR when I didn't know any better, but wanted a Honda. You won't regret the HRX.

What's the benefit other than a bigger engine (likely not necessary?), blade stop (I don't need it because I rarely bag), and a nexite deck (isn't steel good enough).

Don't get me wrong, I know there's value in the HRX, but if my goal is to just get a great, clean cut, won't the HRR match the HRX?

 

[MMoore]

I went HRX after replacing an older mower that the deck rusted out on. I want it to last forever.

The hydrostatic drive is powerful.
blade stop is great, I use it when people are walking by and I want to be polite.... or when something needs to be moved like a kids toy, a lawn chair, pool stuff, etc.

The bigger engine with my somewhat thick lawn I would say is a requirement. lowering my HOC I can still maintain my normal cutting speed but you can hear it working. when I dropped to scalp it REALLY had to work even at a slower pace.

 

[kaptain_zero]

Ah, I get it now. I am dumb. Thank you.

As an old boss once told me: "Ask a stupid question and you'l feel foolish for a few minutes. Don't ask a stupid question and you will remain an idiot for the rest of your life!"

Needless to say, I never worried about sounding dumb or asking stupid questions after that.

So basically, I'd mow right up to the flower bed, for example, stop, the PP handle disengages/comes back up, basically even with the static handle, and since the PP handle is back up (not engaged), my thumbs are right next to the static handle and I can push down/forward on it with my thumbs to push the mower forward while not engaging PP at all.

Correct.

Such a tough decision. I like being able to just push a lever on the mower and go such as with a Honda, but I also like the idea of "just walking" with the PP and having more of a leisure mow. I have heard people's thumbs get sore with Honda Smart Drive, but I really wouldn't know until I mow with it.

I have no idea if thumbs get sore when using other mowers. I just like being able to vary my walking speed at my leisure without having to adjust anything. But as mentioned, that's MY TASTE, yours may be different.

What's the benefit other than a bigger engine (likely not necessary?), blade stop (I don't need it because I rarely bag), and a nexite deck (isn't steel good enough).

Benefit of a larger engine? None, unless the smaller engine is too small. Engine size requirements will depend on the actual load, so if you want to swing those fancy Honda blades, you'll need more power, just for that. If you run into heavy grass, you'll need more power for that too! The "Super Recycler" uses a twisted single blade.... it looks to be quite efficient, requiring less power than the multiblade stuff I see some Honda mowers or even the "gator" type blades used on the regular Toro Recycler. Think in terms of mowing your lawn with a broad sword OR a Katana. Both will cut the grass, but that broad sword is going to need more power to swing quickly enough. The Katana, being much lighter and sharp will require less power to be wasted on just getting the thing move. The actual cutting action relies on momentum, so minimising drag on the blade is important unless you just want to throw more power at it (read larger engine). As the old aeronautical designers used to say: "You can make a brick fly, if you use a big enough engine."

Plastic vs Steel vs Cast Aluminum:

All 3 materials make great mower decks, but...... there are tradeoffs with each type.

Plastic or Nexite (likely a fiber reinforced type of plastic): corrosion resistant and durable, but can be difficult to repair if something breaks... perhaps a moot point as it is very strong, but a loose bolt could eventually strip out threads of the Nexite and it may not be an easy fix.

Steel: Heavy, but very strong, resistant to impacts but unfortunately susceptible to corrosion (rusting). Repairs are often easy with regular welding techniques.

Cast Aluminum: Light weight, corrosion resistant, durable and repairable by welding, but not as easy to weld as steel. TIG welding would be the likely way to do such. My last mower was cast aluminum (Jacobsen Super Bagger) and the deck was in excellent shape after 34 years!

So, today I have a Toro Super Recycler, just the bog standard one without the blade clutch. It starts easy enough.

I looked at the regular recycler, but I prefer the aluminum deck and superior mulching of the Super Recycler, so to save money, I skimped on electric start, blade clutch and the optional Honda engine. Note though, if you opt for the blade clutch, you loose the extra wings above the blade that keep the clipping circulating inside the deck while it's mulching. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I wanted the best mulching I could get and decided to live without the clutch.

 

[TN Hawkeye]

The Toro 20332 was my first mower and loved it (my brother has it now and it still mows awesome). The Personal Pace system is easy to use. No knobs or levers to worry about. The only thing I wished I sprung for when I bought it was the blade stop model especially when/if you are bagging.

Absolutely agree on the personal pace. I've had about every kind of self propelled in the past (except the Honda Smart Drive) and can say the PP is the best. While I've been down with my back my wife and my 11 year old son have both mowed with my mower. No adjustments were needed to the machine. They both simply walked at their preferred speed. There was a learning curve but they both got it pretty quickly. I've been extremely happy with the Toro.

 

[FlowRider]

For those of you who may not have seen the Honda Smart Drive system, here is what it looks like when you are behind it:



Sorry for the slightly out of focus iPotato picture. But this does show the relationship between the Smart Drive Control paddle switch and the drop of the handle bars where you can place your hands during normal operation.

Also, note that you can adjust the position of the Control to five different positions, depending on what you like. I have mine set up to where I can grab the handlebars with my fingers and wrap my thumbs around the paddle switch. You also have to hold the Blade Control with your hand(s) since it functions like a dead man's switch - if it is not held in place, the motor and the blades are switched off by what is effectively a kill switch.

Here's a quick video clip showing how it works in actual use:

As you can see in the video, the Smart Drive allows you to set your own pace as to how fast you want to walk behind the mower. And it is variable in its actuation - meaning if you want to barely move the wheels forward, you can just feather the paddles to very fluidly engage the drive wheels so you can literally creep the chassis forward, inching along as you go.

I really like both of these features. I like to adjust my speed depending on terrain, slope, what I am cutting around, etc. I use this mower to cut in around bushes, flowerbeds, tree rings, street sign poles, and my favorite yard art, the big red fire hydrant that graces my front sidewalk. I also can creep up to the curbs without going off the curb, when cutting in there.

For people who say the paddle switch hurts their thumbs, the last frames in the video show how not to even use your thumbs to use the paddle switch. I just rest my hand on the switch and grab on. It requires no usage of thumbs to use.

I can walk along the edge of curbs, feet in the street, and mow with one hand with one side of the four wheels (two wheels) resting on the curb, which lets you chamfer the edge of your edged outside trim once you are done edging. Looks real nice, and I have to say some of the neighbors tend to gawk at how easily I can mow with just one hand. It is fun!

Backing up is easy - let go of the paddle switch, and roll backwards. You do get some resistance from the drive system, so it does not roll freely backwards, but if you complain about stuff like that, maybe you should just stay inside in the A/C. If you have noodles for arms, you might complain it requires some exertion. If so, go back in the house, and hire someone.

Me, I have no problems with either mowing or backing up - if you have ever run a push mower, it takes about the same effort level. As the old saying goes: "If you cannot run with the big dogs, stay on the porch." Or sit inside with the A/C on. :lol:

Things I don't like? If you want to dump the bag, you have to kill the motor and blades. It is not a huge issue, and I usually stop and wipe the sweat off me with a towel so I can keep the salty sweat out of my eyes, and change to a dry headband. So it can be a benefit to allow you to recover, especially in the coming 100+ heat indexes of the brutal Texas summers.

And, yes, you will have to pull the rope handle to start the mower again. Or you can sit on the porch or in the A/C instead.

It does blow some dust, pollen, and silica crud around you, depending on the season. At times, I can look like Pig Pen on the Charlie Brown cartoons. But I get even more dust running the Hoover God John Deere "material collection system"...!

If you don't like turning the water brown when you first get in the shower, stay on the porch or join the ladies in the A/C....

I wear a nuisance particulate mask. Why? Because I like my lungs clear and my sinuses even clearer. You should too. :thumbup:

Get the kind with the malleable aluminum noise piece if you wear glasses or eye pro. And put some hearing pro on too.

You need to wash off the grass clippings bag and let it air dry to keep it from stinking like old mowed grass. I keep mine in the garage, so I wash it when I am done, stand it up in the Texas sun for about 10 minutes, and it is drier than Texas sand....

What do I like? It's a Honda. It starts on the second pull when cold - it has an automatic choke, so it runs a little rich then After that, it cranks on one pull. If you can't crank it on one pull, you belong on the porch or sitting with the ladies in the A/C. Try the lemonade, I've been told it is very refreshing!

It cuts like a precision instrument. Twin blades. Can mulch or bag with the flip of a switch and removal/adding of the bag.

I had another Honda before this one, the $750 model with the Xenoy plastic composite space age never-gonna-rust deck. It had variable speed control for the motor, a manual choke, and a similar drive system. It lasted 20 years and my neighbor bought it off me for $260 when I moved. I could tell he always wanted it.... So when I needed a new one, Honda.

Four year warranty (usually three year) but Honda was having a Spring Fling or some sort of "buy it now" promotion.

My other one never went to the shop. Not once. Ever. I do my own maintenance. Air, oil, fuel filter and oil change, spark plug once a year, and run ethanol free premium. It has a carburetor, so ethanol fuel gums up if it sets up. Thanks EPA.

I have never had or used a Toro, so I cannot comment on them. The best lawn service in my 'hood uses them, though. They seem to work just fine, never saw one fail.

They also like my John Deere and I think they would kill for the North Star sprayer. I was out spraying weeds with the fan tip to smoke some resurgent nutsedge in a drive-by spot blanket-spraying session. Every time I looked up, they were all eyeballing me. Owner gives me the thumbs up. They use hand pumps and backpack sprayers. I think that may change.

So. would I recommend you buy a Honda mower? Without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely. In my book, they rule. YMMV.

 

[kaptain_zero]

Watch out for one of the most dreaded maladies around:

It's called "Paralysis by Analysis".

It's a terrible state of being..... The only cure is to pick the top 3 or so things that matter TO YOU, and pick the one "whatever it is" that fills those needs and be done with it. It may not be the perfect choice, but it IS your choice. Then it behooves us to remember that if you want to win the race, you have to "run whatcha brung". You will never win with the one you "wished" you had, only the one you do have.

Any of the mowers we've talked about in this thread will get the job done competently, so pays your moneys and takes your choice. :mrgreen:

 

[dfw_pilot]

You will never win with the one you "wished" you had, only the one you do have.

Of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, 'what might have been.'

 

[kaptain_zero]

I figured seeing I was mowing MY lawn and had my phone with me, I'd snap a ciuple if photos illustrating how I drop my thumbs when needed, which was much less often than I thought.

 

[CPA Nerd]

@FlowRider and @kaptain_zero thank you both very much for the extremely detailed posts and for sharing your experiences.

I think I just need to find a way to try out both the HRR and Super Recycler. I have no doubt on the cutting ability of either; I just want the most comfortable mow. If I am unable to do that, I think I'll just suck it up and buy the Super Recycler. I have seen many excellent reviews of each, but I have seen more negative (although still not many) reviews of the HRR. I've seen things like the suction isn't good, it leaves a line of clumps near a tire, and leaves uncut grass. I'm sure I'd be happy with either, though.