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Fungus Among Us

4.2K views 26 replies 7 participants last post by  txjeff  
#1 ·
Hi folks. Newbie here June 2020.
A little background. I live in North Texas, Granbury, near Fort Worth. My house that I bought new with new sod has a 12000 sq ft yard with TIF 419 Bermuda installed 13 years ago. The original land here was a farm turned houses. The soil I would say is at least 30% clay, or terrible. You can dig it out and there are marbled clumps of clay here and there. Turns to concrete in the dead heat of summer. The typical TX style of preparing a new yard is, bring in Cats to level the ground. In some cases, like ours, spread an inch or two layer of sandy loam on top and then lay the sod. And in out case, put in an irrigation system.

Most houses in this community have Bermuda of some type. Some don't have irrigation at all. Some have turned into 100% weeds, and that creates a challenge at prevention. Water is very expensive where I live and a water bill can run as high as $300 after a regular 3 x per week yard watering. The pH of the soil, that I measured using an inexpensive meter, is around 6 to 7. I hired TruGreen by year two of my new home since battling the foray of weeds here was beyond my retail power. And they did a good job and it took about 3 years for them to beat them all into submission and then we could cut back from 6 to 8 times per year treatments to 4 times and maintain our grass looking pretty darn good and mostly weed free for 10 years.

About 4 years ago, however, was the beginning of pain with an apparent fungus (as a few different lawn pros of many years concluded). Although the roots of the grass in the brown ring areas aren't of the level of sickness of dead and easy to pull out, but simply the circular areas (ranging in size from one foot to about three feet) become unhealthy and simply resist strong growth regardless of sufficient water. Picture a 2 inch brown/tan ring around a 2 foot area that has shorter grass that is struggling to come through. At dusk you can look across and see those areas are a bit of a cavity look to them.

It started out as a few spots that I didn't notice nor did TruGreen visits forewarn that something bad was going on. And over the course of a few years are now more like 32 areas/spots. Bear in mind that in 2012 was the start of a three year drought that was really hard on this area with sparse rain and our lake level down so low that no boats could launch for three years. I really believe that was the time of pain for the yards that made them susceptible to attack including our fungus. (That's my assumption since the yard had zero problems for 10 years).

So on point, TruGreen applied a variety of pre-emergents, weed killers and fertilizers. And never any fungicides. I would water as much as possible without putting me in the poorhouse, probably a couple of inches per week but in the dead heat of July and August, with limited rain, sprinklers alone certainly can't compete with this desert. And eventually it simply stops growing and will, be late September/October start protecting itself by going dormant and browning out. And that's pretty much the pattern of everybody's yard in TX except those that live near the lake and can pump all the water they want onto their yard.

So about 8 months ago I stopped using TruGreen and hired a man who has chemistry background to try to solve the problem of fungus since TruGreen really doesn't have that level of depth. Even he wasn't exactly sure and called on others to give an opinion. In either case, they suggested two fungus treatments at a 30 day interval of different types. And those have been applied BUT, as I understand it from my own reading, those are supposed to be applied in the fall when the temperatures are at specific numbers, like around 70 deg surface soil temp. I'm not so sure he did it at the right time. And as I understand it, once you see the brown rings, those are the "symptoms" of the fungus that already attacked earlier. Not the fungus itself, which attacks more slowly and invisibly from the soil during the fall months. A very short period of time.

So the questions I have left are; Once a fungus gets into the soil, I'm not sure at what depth it resides. One video where they had Kentucky Bluegrass said that the fungus layer is like 3 feet down so digging up and replacing 8 inches of soil is pointless as the fungus will return and kill any new grass if not treated. (This was my plan. Of the 32 areas I have in my front yard, I planned to get a tiller and carve up 5 inches of sick areas and shovel and ditch all the soil/old grass and then put new good soil in and new sod.)

Or, will this fungus eventually run it's course and the grass eventually recover?

Should I start an expensive annual regimen of fungicide at the proper time to prevent further damage? I'm noticing now I even have a spot or two in my backyard as if the plague is not over and is spreading or is already rooted in the entire yard.

btw, notice the pic with words on it with new sod. That area is a problem where some weird, hard to identify grass with really deep roots about 8 to 10 inches long, invaded a 40 sq ft area of the yard around the same time that the fungus problem appeared. I got tired of looking at it, in spite of the fact that it, in and of itself, wasn't unhealthy. I dug out all the soil and roots and grass and put in new soil and sod 8 weeks ago.

Any other ideas? And thanks in advance for reading the saga.
















 
#2 ·
That doesn't look so bad almost looks like you have a thatch problem..

- did you scalp in the spring?
- what exactly did they apply for fungus? (guys way smarter than me will start asking you this)
- looks like thatch buildup or insect damage tbh
- how low are you cutting? your bermuda is way to long.

scalp it, fertilize it, water it is what I would do.
 
#4 ·
acegator said:
That doesn't look so bad almost looks like you have a thatch problem..

- did you scalp in the spring?
- what exactly did they apply for fungus? (guys way smarter than me will start asking you this)
- looks like thatch buildup or insect damage tbh
- how low are you cutting? your bermuda is way to long.

scalp it, fertilize it, water it is what I would do.
Hi. Thanks for the reply.
I don't have a thatch problem. It was aerated this year in fact and it's been raked.
No I don't scalp ever. I followed TruGreens advice for length and have my mower set at 3, which is about 1 to 1.5 inches. If I put it on 2, you can count on some higher areas that might get shaved, which we don't want. And if THAT was my problem, I wouldn't have had beautiful grass for 10 years. This is a recent shift and probably tied to the drought. I'm adding a bunch more Today pictures to my original post for you to look at so you can see a more full extent of the sickness in the front. And, the area that I just sodded, was also a sudden appearance of some sort of ugly tough, deep rooted grass that infiltrated my yard for about 40 sq ft. I finally got sick of dealing with it and 6 weeks ago dug out all the grass and soil and replaced with new and Tif sod, so that's what that is about. So please look at the other added pictures.

I should have probably added in my post that the front lawn, the sick part gets the worst, setting sun, heat in the afternoon so probably the worst wear and tear due to that. And it probably grows at half the pace of the backyard, which is actually very healthy in comparison and is cut the exact same way. And gets the same watering and fertilization. But the morning sun there is not nearly as ominous.

I will have to get back to you on the two fungus products that the man applied. I'll send him a text.

Not an insect problem. I dug up a sick area down ten inches and examined for insects. Nothing serious going on. Of course, June bugs are prevalent every year, and we know there will be some grubs in the ground when they arrive for a week or so, but it's never been a big problem.
 
#6 ·
As a PS: I mentioned that it's starting to hit my back yard in a couple of around 2 foot areas. The same circular kind of pattern and the backyard is double the health of the front yard with richness (due to morning sun vs afternoon sun in the front). So regardless of healthy yard, fungus trumps that health. I decided to dig up those two areas months ago and put new soil and I took some healthy grass area plugs and moved them into those spots. So far they have grown over and look seemingly healthy again. But I'm keeping a close eye on the backyard.
 
#7 ·
@txjeff that does look like it could be (or have been) fungal. Interesting that it hasn't recovered already though with the weather we've had. Does this area tend to heal and look like the rest of the yard through the Summers? If this is large patch, then two apps in the Fall and one or two again in the Spring may be needed given our weather during those times of the year.

You can take a soil and a grass sample to your County Extension office for testing and identification, which might help.
 
#8 ·
curious does your lawn get soggy/spongy after irrigating? I see your downspout extension runs directly on top of that area you just sodded. Does water sit for extended periods? I see your lawn has some slope but not very level so those area's could be holding more moisture. The bricks look to be above the grade of your lawn slightly in a downpour or irrigating is that stopping runoff? I live in Louisiana and we are the king of fungus issues with the extreme heat and moisture.. I have have many issues like yours and until I got the slope/grade/moisture issues corrected I would continue to have the same issues..
 
#9 ·
Spammage said:
@txjeff that does look like it could be (or have been) fungal. Interesting that it hasn't recovered already though with the weather we've had. Does this area tend to heal and look like the rest of the yard through the Summers? If this is large patch, then two apps in the Fall and one or two again in the Spring may be needed given our weather during those times of the year.

You can take a soil and a grass sample to your County Extension office for testing and identification, which might help.
Hi. Thanks for the reply.
Our weather patterns certainly are evident of a warming climate change pattern since 2012 and especially that three years of drought. I was actually worried the past 5 weeks as it just quit raining and we only got 3 inches of rain for the first time in weeks a few days ago. I call it liquid gold based on our water bills in Granbury. Horror story. But I also, being a retired guy now, try to be attentive to the drier areas and get a hose out on days of no water, and hit the sick areas with a nice quench.
The front lawn, as a pattern now, grows much slower than the back by probably half or 1/3 the speed. By July it will slow down enormously in the blazing heat and lack of rain.

The areas never fully heal. They seem to have some new attempted growth in the center area but it's stunted compared to the healthy areas. The rings seem to stay barren. I had this one 6 ft by 2 ft oval under the tree that is mostly shaded and protected, yet the surrounding grass is healthy and it was staying brown. I even a year ago bought some Bermuda seed, raked the areas that were sick, including that one, added some good surface soil, and seeded and watered regularly. Nothing happened. I ran a test on the seed in a pot and it sprouted grass so it wasn't bad seed. I seeded the areas twice. I saw little growth. And after the 3 to 4 inches of rain we got, and as you can see in the picture, those spots look as sad as ever.

So I would say as the months get drier, the spots look worse and more obvious. There is a short stint in spring where they look tolerable, to be nice. But never equal to the healthy.

It's hard for me to get anyone, even those with decades of experience to give me a clear opinion. My helper Chris said the County testing probably won't be that helpful. He had a source of a tester that would do an in depth test but it was very costly and like $200 for 2 samples. And I don't know how deep I can go to provide those samples. Can I provide a 3 foot deep tube of soil in a sick area and the same in a healthy area? One video for a Kentucky Bluegrass area the pro said, you can't just dig down 8 inches and replace the soil and sod. The fungus layer, he said, is 3 ft down and will simply re-infect the new grass in time. That's a scary perspective that the fungus never goes away once it's embedded and then you have to pay a lot of money every year with fungicide to prevent sickness? That would be a sad prognosis.
 
#10 ·
acegator said:
curious does your lawn get soggy/spongy after irrigating? I see your downspout extension runs directly on top of that area you just sodded. Does water sit for extended periods? I see your lawn has some slope but not very level so those area's could be holding more moisture. The bricks look to be above the grade of your lawn slightly in a downpour or irrigating is that stopping runoff? I live in Louisiana and we are the king of fungus issues with the extreme heat and moisture.. I have have many issues like yours and until I got the slope/grade/moisture issues corrected I would continue to have the same issues..
Without the amount of irrigation I do and the price of water here and the clay based soil, no. Especially in the hot times of the summer. You can walk across the yard 30 minutes after watering and not leave any dents. I water about 12 minutes per zone which probably equates to a half inch to at most an inch of water. Yes, I've had people tell me you need to water more. And I say, will you pay the water bill? In fact, many in my neighborhood, at least half, never water due to the bill prices and they don't care. There lawns go dormant early and done. And some even let their yards go to weed and just scalp it. I call them the smarter people since they aren't paying a dime on water, fertilizer and they cut less. And it still has a green tint. Who's the smart ones? I really don't think it's me.

There is a slight slope to the front yard yes toward the drainage ditch. We are on a higher area which, in fact, I consider better when there is a heavy 5 day storm. We don't get serious flooding issues. But probably those areas on the slope are more subject to getting drier. But it's mostly that those areas also get blasted by the hottest setting sun and are punished the most on that side. Honestly, I don't consider the slope in my yard to be a terrible one and that are yard is probably one of the flattest ones in the neighborhood. Some have some serious slopes in their yard that are challenging and some have retaining walls due to the design of the yard.
 
#11 ·
@txjeff Looks like some dinosaur foot tracts. :lol: Local Joke! Like @Spammage says it looks like TARR bermuda decline or Large Patch. It would not hurt to get a bag of disease Ex in the short term and spread across those areas. In the long term with a large lawn like yours I would be spray ABOUND Azoxy 22.9 (same as Disease Ex) and propiconazole in the fall and next spring. With such a large yard in the long term I would look at curative rate of Abound (Azoxy 22.9) and preventive rate of Propiconazole 14.3(sensitive on bermuda in warm temps).

You are not joking about the water rates. I live 100 miles NE of you and only pay $4.82 per 1000 gallons after 8000 gallons. I see that in Granbury is $13.09 for over 10,000 and $13.51 over 20,000 gallons for outside. They must make you have a second meter.

It seems to me from friends and neighbors around me that most lawn services do not spray fungicide as a basic package but as an add-on. Everyone always wants the cheapest until they get the fungus or grubs. You might find these resources helpful.

https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/bermuda-Image2.jpg
https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ESC-042-bermudagrass-lawn-management-calendar.pdf
https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/library/landscaping/take-all-root-rot/

https://texaset.tamu.edu/
 
#13 ·
@txjeff well, it almost sounds more like Spring Dead Spot, which is treated similarly to Large Patch, but more damaging to the stand over time if left unchecked. Do some reading about it on Tx A&M's or NC State's websites and see what you think based on their write-ups. I agree with @cldrunner that the A&M testing is cheap, so I would try it to see if they can narrow down what pathogen you are trying to combat.
 
#14 ·
I appreciate the comments of testing. I will check it out to see if it's the kind of testing that would be beneficial or just the typical pH and minerals testing without microscopic examination for the fungus type.
 
#15 ·
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Soil test is cheap at Texas A&M.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/soilwebform.pdf
If you look at the organic matter level of testing on the form it's $80 per sample. So I know it's not a fortune, but I also don't know if a sample can be 3 ft long to look at different points at different depths for the fungus.
 
#16 ·
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Looks like some dinosaur foot tracts. :lol: Local Joke! Like @Spammage says it looks like TARR bermuda decline or Large Patch. It would not hurt to get a bag of disease Ex in the short term and spread across those areas. In the long term with a large lawn like yours I would be spray ABOUND Azoxy 22.9 (same as Disease Ex) and propiconazole in the fall and next spring. With such a large yard in the long term I would look at curative rate of Abound (Azoxy 22.9) and preventive rate of Propiconazole 14.3(sensitive on bermuda in warm temps).

You are not joking about the water rates. I live 100 miles NE of you and only pay $4.82 per 1000 gallons after 8000 gallons. I see that in Granbury is $13.09 for over 10,000 and $13.51 over 20,000 gallons for outside. They must make you have a second meter.

It seems to me from friends and neighbors around me that most lawn services do not spray fungicide as a basic package but as an add-on. Everyone always wants the cheapest until they get the fungus or grubs. You might find these resources helpful.

https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/bermuda-Image2.jpg
https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ESC-042-bermudagrass-lawn-management-calendar.pdf
https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/library/landscaping/take-all-root-rot/

https://texaset.tamu.edu/
Yeah, that's a pretty accurate funny! lol I forwarded this to my "grass guy". No we are on one meter that is both water use and then there's a add on for a percentage of sewage as well. You are right. None of the services do fungus treatment until it's too late. Worse that they ignore it completely when the symptoms appear. This is only the second house I've owned in my life and I'm 65. I mostly rented, and safe to say, I miss the renting and the no responsibility times of my life. And this is the first time I've been dealing with or even heard the name, Tif 419. I never have saw a fungus problem in any of the yards I've been in. But I have seen the challenges on some golf courses but never asked since it wasn't my problem.
TruGreen would do fungus treatment if I asked them for it but not voluntarily.
 
#17 ·
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Soil test is cheap at Texas A&M.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/soilwebform.pdf
Well lo and behold, your advice got me to a good direction as we have a Texas AM office right in my town! Doy. Never knew that. I called them and apparently there is a man who deals with these kind of calls all the time. He'll be calling me.
 
#19 ·
CenlaLowell said:
I hate this fungus stuff I get it every season. The soil test should tell you what you need to do and hopefully that helps in the fight. Im at least hoping that what helps me because I have plenty of fungicide chemicals and that not the answer
Yeah fungicide to me is just like Fluoride is to tooth decay. Preventing the resident fungus from getting at the roots of the grass. From the videos I've watched as well it's pointless if not applied at the key times when the temperature allows the fungus to be active in a very narrow band of time like 30 days in the fall and 30 days in the spring and is pointless if applied to the symptoms. It's like putting Fluoride on a cavity. Too late.

On a side story, I had a fungus in my sinus years ago that all these ENT docs threw pills at me that just dried it up but didn't stop the problem until I was lucky enough to stumble upon the one guy in Copell who was smarter. He said, "You could take a barrel of pills and you wouldn't fix it". He could see the problem in a CT Scan. The only way to fix it was to get into the sinus surgically and clean it out thoroughly of the residing fungus. Which he did and within a week the problem was gone.

So I compare that to digging out the infected soil in the lawn and getting rid of it entirely. But imagine if it was 3 ft down what an enormous job that would turn into. It would be pointless. And the fact that it spread probably means spores are rearing their ugly head out the surface and blowing around and infecting new areas. Or it could be like a vine and just reaches underground around the yard. Even seen documentaries on fungus and it is some seriously tenacious stuff.

And that points to ideas like, get rid of that particular type of grass that is susceptible to the fungus. Or just put rocks in! (Which, quite honestly, if I wasn't married, is what I would have done 13 years ago). This is a desert for crying out loud. Who's dumb idea was it that "we need grass". Yikes. Sadly, and as usual, I got overruled and if I throw it up, that's usually bad for me too. LOL
 
#20 ·
CenlaLowell said:
I hate this fungus stuff I get it every season. The soil test should tell you what you need to do and hopefully that helps in the fight. Im at least hoping that what helps me because I have plenty of fungicide chemicals and that not the answer
@CenlaLowell I think sometimes as DIY Ultra Uber grass guys we are our worst enemy. We over fertilize, overwater, overspray chemicals, fertilize to late in the year(gotta have it green for Halloween), and using strong chemical with non calibrated sprayers. We think just a little more is better when in reality a little less is best. In the last two years I have faced not enough rain, way to much rain, armyworms, grubs, and Take all Root Rot.

It sure is fun trying to combat all the elements and have a great looking yard.
 
#21 ·
cldrunner said:
CenlaLowell said:
I hate this fungus stuff I get it every season. The soil test should tell you what you need to do and hopefully that helps in the fight. Im at least hoping that what helps me because I have plenty of fungicide chemicals and that not the answer
@CenlaLowell I think sometimes as DIY Ultra Uber grass guys we are our worst enemy. We over fertilize, overwater, overspray chemicals, fertilize to late in the year(gotta have it green for Halloween), and using strong chemical with non calibrated sprayers. We think just a little more is better when in reality a little less is best. In the last two years I have faced not enough rain, way to much rain, armyworms, grubs, and Take all Root Rot.

It sure is fun trying to combat all the elements and have a great looking yard.
Yup, probably so that's why I hired TruGreen so I could hold them responsible. And for many years I was fine UNTIL; the fated day when fungus entered the arena and that's where they are lost. As well as most other lawn services. Apparently, from what I read, the over use of Urea based fertilizers is one of the prime causes of problems.
 
#22 ·
txjeff said:
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Soil test is cheap at Texas A&M.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/soilwebform.pdf
Well lo and behold, your advice got me to a good direction as we have a Texas AM office right in my town! Doy. Never knew that. I called them and apparently there is a man who deals with these kind of calls all the time. He'll be calling me.
Mind sharing his name? I'm just north of you in Godley and it would be nice to have his info.
 
#23 ·
Philly_Gunner said:
txjeff said:
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Soil test is cheap at Texas A&M.

http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/soilwebform.pdf
Well lo and behold, your advice got me to a good direction as we have a Texas AM office right in my town! Doy. Never knew that. I called them and apparently there is a man who deals with these kind of calls all the time. He'll be calling me.
Mind sharing his name? I'm just north of you in Godley and it would be nice to have his info.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tex...1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e1!1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e2!2m1!1e16!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
 
#24 ·
@txjeff Sometimes the local extension offices will have a Master Gardener call you. They know their roses and cucumbers but not always bermuda lawns. Will be interesting to see what you find out.

Below is the Plant Disease diagnostic form I could not find earlier today.

https://plantclinic.tamu.edu/files/2010/10/Plant-Disease-Diagnosis-Form-D-1178.pdf
 
#25 ·
@txjeff Have you or your lawn service put a fungicide down anytime in the last two years?

Are all your sprinkler heads the same kind? What kind do you have? For example, I have hunter spray nozzles in a few zones that put out 1.86 inches per hour. I have Hunter MP Rotator in most of my zones that put out .46 in per hour. Because of this I water less in the zones that are. spray. I also have to water my front lawn about twice as much as the back lawn because of the heat off the circle drive, sidewalks and driveway.
 
#26 ·
cldrunner said:
@txjeff Have you or your lawn service put a fungicide down anytime in the last two years?

Are all your sprinkler heads the same kind? What kind do you have? For example, I have hunter spray nozzles in a few zones that put out 1.86 inches per hour. I have Hunter MP Rotator in most of my zones that put out .46 in per hour. Because of this I water less in the zones that are. spray. I also have to water my front lawn about twice as much as the back lawn because of the heat off the circle drive, sidewalks and driveway.
As I mentioned, I did contact the TX A&M guy and he's supposed to call me soon. That was a good luck in a Google search that there's a guy in my town.

My sprinkler system is made by Hunter. I know it's not a perfect system, and I have spent a lot of time mucking with the adjustments of the various heads and I realize rotary type heads tend to water a bit inconsistently; more near the head and at the end where it hits. That kind of things. But generally most of the spots are getting water with sufficient time per zone. Granted it's probably not sufficient volume unless I let it run like 40 minutes per zone, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay a $500 water bill in the summer months in TX. I'm not that fond of my lawn. LOL.

I know this was all emotional choices being married and with a dog and a doggy door. All this crap surrounds that stuff, which, if I was a single guy, no dog, no doggy door, no need for fencing, rocks in the yard instead of lawn. Done! Or better yet, rent at a Condo. Yard not my problem at all then. Of course if I voice that "dream" to my wife, it makes her feel like "do I need get a lawyer"? Then I have to say, "Don't worry. It's just a rant. We're committed to this voyage on the SS Minnow now with our 3 hour tour."