[FlyMike]

My TTTF renovation was a great success last year. Now that the new year has come around it is time for me to start planning some way to deal with fungus that will most likely try to invade my yard. With this being a brand new lawn I'm not sure what may or may not break out, although brown patch is probably a given.

My initial plan was to alternate azoxystrobin and propiconazol on a set schedule when conditions favor fungus growth, and to prevent fungicide resistance. This plan is a little on the pricier side of things, but I'm willing to do it to keep my lawn healthy.

While researching, I also have heard of people talking about using Serenade, or similar, as a natural preventative fungicide. They had mentioned that it helped build the good bacteria in the soil to fight off the fungus, while the traditional fungicides are more non selective and will kill off good and bad bacteria/fungus in the soil. This route appeals to me because I am trying to build up a good soil/OM structure and would like to do everything I can to keep it up.

I guess this is just a long winded way of asking you all what you would recommend as the best way for me to go about a fungicide program this year with my turf still being somewhat new and me never really being cognizant or dealing with fungus in the lawn.

 

[LawnNerd]

First, fungicides will non-selectivly kill any type of fungi (good or bad), but will not affect the bacteria. I see the allure to Serenade, but for us in the Transition zone, i don't think this is really a feasible alternative. Pressure is just too high for too long.

It's not a matter of IF brown patch this summer, it's a matter of when in June is it going to show up...

Your choices are good. I'd go ahead and start May 1st at the 1 month preventive rate, and do monthly spraying. I'd do each choice 2x in a row, and then switch to the next. Come Sept, go back the first.

If pressure is really bad this year (lots of evening rains) then step up to 2x a month, and i'd add in a 3rd option from a 3rd unique FRAC class into the rotation. For more on the different classes and what's in each class, see this link http://www.frac.info/docs/default-s...arch-2017f19b282c512362eb9a1eff00004acf5d.pdf

I know it can be a hot topic, but chlorothalonil is an affordable option.

If you haven't purchased your Azoxy yet, check out this option https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...Wo-2R3nG1P5SBQs_jmVqe-FfFpZzWlToaAjaXEALw_wcB.

 

[FlyMike]

Thanks @LawnNerd for the info. I have only done limited research on fungicides, but haven't come across chlorothalonil. It seems like a great option. What about it makes it a hot topic? With it being considered a non resistance fungicide would you recommend using it on it's own or would alternating it with something else be a better option?

 

[Pete1313]

If you haven't purchased your Azoxy yet, check out this option https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...Wo-2R3nG1P5SBQs_jmVqe-FfFpZzWlToaAjaXEALw_wcB.

That is an awesome price for azoxystrobin! Per the conversion chart at the end of the label it has just over 2lbs of AI in a gallon.. Thanks for the tip LawnNerd! :thumbsup:

 

[LawnNerd]

Well it's not labeled for home use. It was discovered that it caused cancer in rats that were exposed to high levels. Removal from Home lawn use was an agreement between the FDA and the manufacturer to limit use (read exposure) but not taking it solely off the table. The fear is that it can possibly lead to cancer in humans, since it did in rats. The perplexing thing that confuses me, is that it's still labeled for garden usage, including your home garden, shrubs and golf courses. (It goes by the market name of Daconil a lot of the time, and sold under that name at your local big box).

I use it, but the decision to use it is a personal one that you'll have to make.

Always rotate fungicides. I don't believe there are any non-resistance fungicides (but i'd like to be wrong on this one). Some just have a lower resistance than others. I personally don't mix unless i have a major outbreak and i'm trying to cure. Curing an outbreak requires a bigger punch than preventing.

 

[LawnNerd]

If you haven't purchased your Azoxy yet, check out this option https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...Wo-2R3nG1P5SBQs_jmVqe-FfFpZzWlToaAjaXEALw_wcB.

That is an awesome price for azoxystrobin! Per the conversion chart at the end of the label it has just over 2lbs of AI in a gallon.. Thanks for the tip LawnNerd! :thumbsup:

Yea, i did the math once, and at max AI per year on my 6k sqft it would cover me for like 8 years or something ridiculous.

 

[g-man]

Well it's not labeled for home use. It was discovered that it caused cancer in rats that were exposed to high levels. Removal from Home lawn use was an agreement between the FDA and the manufacturer to limit use (read exposure) but not taking it solely off the table. The fear is that it can possibly lead to cancer in humans, since it did in rats. The perplexing thing that confuses me, is that it's still labeled for garden usage, including your home garden, shrubs and golf courses. (It goes by the market name of Daconil a lot of the time, and sold under that name at your local big box).

I use it, but the decision to use it is a personal one that you'll have to make.

Always rotate fungicides. I don't believe there are any non-resistance fungicides (but i'd like to be wrong on this one). Some just have a lower resistance than others. I personally don't mix unless i have a major outbreak and i'm trying to cure. Curing an outbreak requires a bigger punch than preventing.

To anyone reading this in the future, @LawnNerd is referring to chlorothalonil and not to azoxystrobin.

I would also add that there are studies linking Daconil to the reduction in bee population.

 

[440mag]

I can't get enough information on this topic (fungicides).

Recent example being my passing 'Abound' by being the red color bold print "Do not use on turf" toward the bottom of this vendor's page: https://www.pestrong.com/1546-abound-fungicide-quadris-fungicide-heritage-gallon.html

And yet, the target group list reads almost identical to other azoxy products labeled specifically for turf.

Anyone have any insight into the "Do not use on turf" note?

Note: FWIW, I just went back and double checked the entirety of the Syngenta label on the Abound and the "Do not use on turf" note does not appear anywhere on the actual label ...

 

[VaBeachEmpireZ]

At one time the Abound label listed turf: page 49 / 58

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/000100-01098-20040330.pdf

I purchased my 1gal from KeystonePestSolutions in April of 2017, 209 $

I called Syngenta's customer service, explained what I wanted to use it for, Rhizoctonia solani in my Empire Zoysia, and the rep agreed that it was a good plan.

In Va Beach Headway seems to be the fungicide of choice for many applications. Instead of paying top dollar for Headway I tank mix Abound with Prime Source PPZ 41.8 Propiconazole in my Chapin 63985 24v backpack, works pretty nice.

I used to use Strobe 50WG (Quali-Pro) in the Chapin 63985 24v backpack, and even with pre-agitating in a 2 1/2gal bottle, the WG didn't dissolve completely and would interfere with the pump, confirmed with a call to the Chapin engineers. I don't have the issue anymore after switching to Abound flowable.

Does anyone have info on why Abound doesn't list turf anymore?

 

[440mag]

At one time the Abound label listed turf: page 49 / 58

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/000100-01098-20040330.pdf

"Aha!" (in my best imitation of Inspector Clouseau's voice), it appears as I suspected (and although I don't "know," I'd suspect involvement of the EPA in some "form of agreement" by the mfr to remove turf ... :? ) Fade out to the 'Pink Panther' theme music ....

Also, the issues that come with trying to fully dissolve "WDG" ("wettable dry granular") or other "granulars intended to be "wettable" and thus "flowable" has me seeking LIQUID fungicides solely. (I really appreciate your "heads up about difficulty fully dissolving the 'Strobe' product with which I have zero experience although I had a similar experience with 'Armada 50WDG". After preparing a tankful in my 4-gal backpack sprayer, I would have to pre-mix the appropriate amount of Armada in a 1-gallon jug of water, agitate the bejeesus out of it and then give it time to let it dissolve even more while I sprayed the tankful preceding it. Though terribly labor intensive and time consumptive, I was able to prevent the Armada "WDG" from clogging my sprayer but, just barely. Side note: Armada actually combines Group 3 and Group 11 and I found it incredibly effective at not only prevention on my own lawn but darn near instantaneous as a curative on a friends lawn who waited to call me until an outbreak in his entire yard was the cancerous equivalent of "Stage 4" (or, "fully involved," for any firefighters here).

However, as most are aware, fungicides from at least two different Groups is not just desirable but, adviseable to prevent any of the many funguses from developing resistance (really something to be avoided at all costs).

So far, AND ANYONE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME AND I'LL REVISE OR ADD TO THIS LIST, I've come up with the following LIQUID FUNGICIDES, as liquid Group options to alternate between:

Clearys 3336F (Group 1)

Eagle 20EW (Group 3)
Propiconazole 14.3 (Group 3)

Chlorothalonil (Group M-05) somewhat controversial and likely worth passing over in favor of others

Azoxy 2SC (Group 11) (EXPENSIVE!)
Abound (containing AzoxystrobinGroup 11) previously listed "for turf" but now mysteriously not (...?)

Speaking only for myself, the above list gives me a sufficient number of "different Groups" for me to alternate between to: 1) effectively PREVENT any outbreaks; and, 2) avoid any disease(s) developing resistance. (Given the pressure and conditions so favorable for fungus in my locale, for me that means no more than 2 applications of one group followed by no more than 2 applications of a DIFFERENT group.)

Alls I need do now is go back and determine which is the most economical (least expensive) product from each group. (It appears obvious that 'Abound' is the most cost efficient over Azoxy 2SC, in Group 11 (but alas, I've already got Azoxy on-hand, will have to try Abound next year!)

In closing, thank you all for the great information-sharing! :thumbup:

 

[ABC123]

Can anybody populate a fungicide program? Really interested in how many applications are done in a growing season and how often you cycle through different ones.

Im very interested in study's and lititure on this subject as I'm currently clueless.

 

[440mag]

@ abc123, hello!

The number of ("how many") applications depends on the calendar dates conditions are favorable for the particular diseases you are targeting. Where I am, biggest concerns are brown patch, take all, etc. AND OTHERS all (or at least most) of which are normally avoidable through good cultivation practices. Challenge for me is, where I am at, overnight high heat temps combined with high humidity from end-of-May through October results in "it don't matter" how good one's cultivation practices are -- if folks in my locale don't apply fungicides preventatively, they're getting fungal disease outbreaks, simple as that. Anyway, I say all this as, you're so much farther north than I am, not only are your "high-overnight-heat-and-humidity" dates shorter than mine, you are likely dealing with targeting diseases I am not the least concerned about (snow mold, etc.).

The label on each product will guide you on not only how many days to wait in between applications but, also how many ounces (or fractions of ounces) you want to apply, per 1,000 square feet. Note that the amount of product you apply per 1K sf is different than the amount of water you need to do so. Water is only the carrier; I may use 2 gals of water to apply a 1/2 ounce of fungicide to 1k sf or I may use 4gals of water to apply 1/2 oz of the same product to 1k sf of lawn. What's important is that I got 1/2 oz of product down on that 1k sf of grass.

Similarly, "how often you cycle through different ones" depends upon the specific products you're using but, a universl good rule of thumb (there are some exceptions) is to not use the same product more than 2x in a row. So, for my lawn, where I am at, I may apply Product 'A' from Group 3 on May 1 and then again (21 days later, based on what the label tells me) on May 21. BUT! THEN, 21 days after that (June 12) I apply Product 'B' from Group 11 and then again (14 days later, based on what the label tells me) on June 26.

After that, I go back to Product 'A' and the cycle starts over, make sense?

Step # 1 for me is always determining just how many gal.s of water does it take for me to apply anything to 1,000 square feet of my lawn, anyway?! First, I measured a 10' x 100' section of driveway and using my backpack sprayer I determined it took 2gals of plain water to uniformly cover that marked off 1k sf of concrete. Next, knowing 1,000 sq feet = roughly a 31' x 31' square, I counted how many steps it takes me to walked off the edges of that area and I determined it takes 13 of my normal pace steps to / equals 31-feet and so, then I proceeded to walk off a 13-step by 13-step "block" of lawn and, sure enough, it took me 2 gals of water to uniformly spray that area.

Step # 2 in looking for the literature (homework reading) is determining what diseases you're up against (you may not even be up against any for all I know and I have relatives who live all over the US who contact me because they see others - "in so-and-so forum, on the internet" - mentioning certain pests and diseases and they are concerned they should be applying certain things when it turns out, quite fortunately for them, those weeds, pests or diseases aren't even a concern to them, where they're at.

Step # 3 is (more often than not) finding more than one fungicide -- and each from a different "mode of action" Group --with the reason being fungi, bacteria and viruses nearly all possess the wonderful quality of being able to DEVELOP RESISTANCE to molecular structures effective at disrupting different cycles of their development, if used over and over again. So, use any any product from one MOA or FRAC Group 2x in a row BUT THEN SWITCH to a product from a DIFFERENT MOA or FRAC Group.

Step # 4 (for me) is cost-comparison shopping. Because mfr 'a' may only sell their product in gallons while mfr 'b' only sells theirs in quarts, I always break the price down "per ounce"

I am more right-brained than left so, instead of "spreadsheets" I keep an annual "yarden diary" or "log" (or, "journal," if you will) that helps me keep track of "when and what and how worked" vs what did not. That said, I can think of some forums "Around The Internet" where I KNOW I would REGRET doing this but, I get the vibe this ain't one of them so, in the hope it is of any assist to you, here are my "fungicide application notes" from 2017:

<snip text>

First, I measured a 10' x 100' section of driveway and it took 2gals of water to uniformly cover the concrete. Next, we found 13 of my steps measures out to / equals 31-feet and we know 31' x 31' = roughly 1,000 sq ft so, then I proceeded to walk off a 13-step by 13-step "block" of lawn and then another for two total and after which I would mix and spray 4 gals of water with 2.0 oz of Eagle mixed into the tank.

2017-04-27: First application spray of Eagle fungicide on turf Notes
Five (5) spray tankfuls = 20.0 gals of water and 10 oz of Eagle. Based on my "calibrations" above, I figured 1oz of Eagle for every 2 gal.s water. Problem is, I wound up using a lot less than 2 gals to do each 1,000 sq ft of yard - closer to 3,000 sq ft for every 2 gal.s of Eagle mix.

2017-05-16: Second application spray of Eagle fungicide on turf Notes
Applied five (5) full spray tankfuls, each tank four (4) gals with 2 oz of Eagle fungicide = 20.0 gals of water and 10 oz of Eagle. Start in front yard on top of hill and work down til empty; 2nd tank full up at street and work down to top 1/3 to ½ of meadow; 3rd tank full finish meadow; 4th tank full backyard and 5th tank full go back to where left off in meadow and then also where missed at bottom of hill in front . . . (fingers crossed!!!!)

2017-06-07: First Application Aramda (Followup note: See 6-7-2017 notes for 1st app. Of Armada)
Applied five (5) full spray tankfuls, each tank four (4) gals with 1 oz of Armada fungicide (= 20.0 gals of water and 5 oz of Armada fungicide, total). Start in front yard on top of hill and work down til empty; 2nd tank full entire backyard; 3rd tank full start up at street and work down to to swamp portion of meadow and then also where missed at bottom of hill in front . . . (this ½ recommended preventative spray … fingers crossed!!!!)

Armada is a PAIN IN THE *SS to deal with! First off, it's a powder so, had to add granules to a ½ gal of water in a clean milk jug with cap and then shake the hell out of it until dissolved and THEN TRANSFER that "milkshake" into the 4 gal sprayer tank; On top of that, it foams so, hard to get 4gals in sprayer tank without it foaming over … DEFINITELY EXPLORE GOING WITH EAGLE AND HERITAGE IN FUTURE *if* Heritage is liquid (not powder)!

2017-06-28: Second Application Aramda
Applied only four (4) full spray tankfuls; however; due to "foam" effect of the Armda "milkshakes" I was only able to get 3 to 3-1/2 to gal.s of water in each tank four AND, I "up'ed" the amount of Armada powder to 1-1/2 oz of Armada fungicide = 16.0 gals of water and 6 oz of Armada fungicide. Start in front yard on top of hill and work down til empty; 2nd tank full entire meadow and up at street; 3rd tank full backyard; 4th tank-full start uppermost portion of lower meadow and work down to to swamp portion.
Armada is a FOAMY PAIN IN THE *SS to deal with!

2017-07-14: Third application spray (2nd rotation) of Eagle fungicide on turf (wasn't scheduled til 7-18 but, have to travel those dates

2017-08-6: Fourth application spray (last ½ of 2nd rotation) of Eagle fungicide on turf.
FIRST TIME USE OF "Turf Mark" blue indicator; couple of notes: 1) definitely requires at least 1oz of marker per 1gal of liquid in tank but, residue tends to stay in tank so, may be able to get by with less in subsequent tank-fulls; 2) USE OF THE INDICATOR DEFINITELY WOUND UP WITH ME USING MORE MATERIALS AND, INSTEAD OF ONLY NEEDING 5 BACKPACK SPRAYER TANK-FULLS, THIS TIME, (w blue indicator) IT TOOK ME SIX!
Due to increased favorable conditions for disease outbreak (overnight high heat / humidity) I mixed 3oz of Eagle into each 4-gal sprayer tank-full so, this time, the entire yard took a total of = 24 gals of water and 18oz of Eagle!

2017-08-25: Third (1st half, 2nd rotation with) Application Armada water dispersible granules
(4-hours, incl. clean-up)
Due to increased favorable conditions for disease outbreak (overnight high heat / humidity) I applied SEVEN (7 !!!!) full spray tankfuls; however; due to "foam" effect of the Armada "milkshakes" I was only able to get close 3-1/2 + gal.s of water in each tank four AND, I "up'ed" the amount of Armada powder to 3.0 FULL OZ OF ARMADA IN EACH 3-1/2 TO 4 GAL SPRAYER TANK FULL!!!
Total application for today = 28gals water : 21 oz Armada; (7 tanks x 4 gals = 28 gals water with 7 x 3oz Armada granules=21oz Armada) Started (tank # 1) top of yard along road down to "neck" above meadow; Tank # 2 top 2/3 meadow; Tank # 3 remainder meadow (both sides drainage) down to swamp; Tank # 4 top 1/3 of front yard hill; Tank # 5 90% of backyard; Tank # 6 middle 1/3 front yard hill and swamp; Tank # 7 bottom 1/3 front yard hill and "alley" along sub-basement and caught remaining 10% backyard (very bottom of hill). . . monitor.

2017-09-14: Fourth (2nd half, 2nd rotation with) Application Aramda water dispersible granules
Applied SIX (6) full spray tankfuls; however; due to "foam" effect of the Armada "milkshakes" I was only able to get close 3-1/2 + gal.s of water in each tank four AND, I returned the amount of Armada powder to 2.0 FULL OZ OF ARMADA IN EACH 3-1/2 GAL SPRAYER TANK FULL.
Total application for today = 21gals water : 12 oz Armada; (6 tanks x 3-½ gals = 21 gals water with 6 x 2oz Armada granules=21oz Armada) Started (tank # 1) top of yard along road down to top third of meadow; Tank # 2 top remaining 2/3 meadow (both sides drainage) down to swamp; Tank # 3 top 1/2 of front yard hill; Tank # 4 90% of backyard; Tank # 5 remaining 10% backyard (very bottom of hill) and "alley" along sub-basement; Tank # 6 bottom 1/2 front yard hill and caught swamp.
LESSON LEARNED FOR 2017: END-OF-SUMMER IS WHEN YOU NEED TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT APPLYING FUNGICIDE, NOT "DROP OFF"!!!!!!!!!!

2017-10-10: Fifth 2017 application spray (first ½ of 3rd Eagle rotation for 2017) of Eagle fungicide on turf. (Even though previous notes say to use at least 1oz of marker per 1gal of liquid in tank I only used 1oz per 4-gal "full" tank-full … seemed to work okay …)
Wound up using five (5) four-gallon (4-gal) tankfuls and I mixed 2.5 to 3oz of Eagle into each 4-gal sprayer tank-full so, this time, the entire yard took a total of = 20 gals of water and approx. 15 oz of Eagle!

<End snip>

Using the above products, application amounts, and intervals 2017 WAS THE FIRST YEAR WE DID NOT LOSE LARGE PORTIONS OF OTHERWISE VIGOROUS LAWN AND TURF DUE TO FUNGAL OUTBREAKS, during the course of the hot and humid portions of our growing season.

Wrap-up: In the future I am going to use (and monitor closely) alternating between Propiconazole (Group 3) and Azoxystrobin (Group 11).

Hope this helps but, there's no short-cutting the reading you'll need to do, in order to target the diseases specific to your area.

Best o' Success!

 

[ABC123]

Wow thank you very much for the detailed response. Defiantly helps a lot!!

Being so far north I've only seen some rust in shady areas, random dollar spot and a few places of fairy ring. I've never treated fungus because it seems to only last 4-6 weeks and recovered well on its own.

 

[440mag]

In that case, Consider yerself real blessed!

 

[j4c11]

Last year I did applications of propiconazole 14.3 every 2 weeks at 1oz/k May through September. Tank mixed and sprayed with PGR. Added azoxystrobin every other application to deal with resistance issues - stuff is expensive. Worked really well, not a sign of fungus. The key is to apply on a preventive basis before disease sets in - if you wait until you have disease, it's an uphill battle.

 

[ABC123]

If fungus isn't a huge battle could Heritage G be almost effiecent enough on its own?

 

[bernstem]

If fungus is not an issue, then you should avoid fungicides. Whether Heritage G is enough on its own depends on the fungus you are looking to prevent/treat. For example, there are studies that show Dollar Spot is worse the season after applying Azoxystrobin. Not only that, but Azoxystrobin (Heritage) alone is not labeled for and may not be enough to treat/prevent Dollar Spot. What you want is a fungicide labelled for Dollar Spot like Myclobutanil or Propiconazole (among others).

As you can see, you would ideally know what diseases you need to treat/prevent and would target your treatment to the disease.

If disease is not a significant issue, I would recommend you research biological fungicides (which we believe are kinder on the lawn micro-flora) and work on cultural practices to reduce the chance of a disease outbreak. Serenade, Companion and Actinovate are commonly used for lawns. Hold the chemicals for situations where you know you will have a disease or you need to treat an already present disease.

 

[g-man]

^+1 @bernstem

To me the key is to work on cultural practices. I know transition zone has an extra challenge, but the need for fungicides should reduce as the cultural practices improve. One that I learned the hard way was lowering the hoc as the dry hot summer moves into a humid 85f August month. Less moisture means less room for fungus to grow(foliar types).

 

[bernstem]

Disease control in the transition zone is very different from the north and the likelyhood of needing a chemical control is higher. Even then, the prevention/treatment should target the disease. Azoxystrobin is a very good, but expensive fungicide. It is my go-to for summer patch, but not all lawns will have summer patch problems. If you don't, you likely can use less expensive control options.

It is important to consider where a poster is from when evaluating their advice. I see posters on this thread from MO, NC, MN, and IN. Especially for disease management, plans will vary greatly by region and lawn.

 

[ricwilli]

If fungus is not an issue, then you should avoid fungicides. Whether Heritage G is enough on its own depends on the fungus you are looking to prevent/treat. For example, there are studies that show Dollar Spot is worse the season after applying Azoxystrobin. Not only that, but Azoxystrobin (Heritage) alone is not labeled for and may not be enough to treat/prevent Dollar Spot. What you want is a fungicide labelled for Dollar Spot like Myclobutanil or Propiconazole (among others).

As you can see, you would ideally know what diseases you need to treat/prevent and would target your treatment to the disease.

If disease is not a significant issue, I would recommend you research biological fungicides (which we believe are kinder on the lawn micro-flora) and work on cultural practices to reduce the chance of a disease outbreak. Serenade, Companion and Actinovate are commonly used for lawns. Hold the chemicals for situations where you know you will have a disease or you need to treat an already present disease.

I know this is a really old thread. I guess I went down to far into the rabbit hole and landed here. But the interesting thing in this post is the sentence that says "there are studies that show Dollar Spot is worse the season after applying Azoxystrobin." This is crazy. So is anyone just using the kinder chemicals like Serenade, Companion and Actinovate on your lawns as preventatives?