Does Sand + Clay = Concrete?
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Joined
·
3,477 Posts
Thanks for posting this. I'm going to be looking into sand sources in the future.
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
@wardconnor Is the new MythBuster! #wouldyoulookatthat
Joined
·
1,720 Posts
Exactly folks. Who the crap was it that started the retarded rumor that clay plus sand equals concrete? This is evidence that it is NOT correct.
That concrete rumor is a real pisser offer for sure.
That concrete rumor is a real pisser offer for sure.
Joined
·
2,722 Posts
I think there was some wizardry at play in that rumorwardconnor said:
Joined
·
281 Posts
I see what you did there.Mightyquinn said:I think there was some wizardry at play in that rumorwardconnor said:
While you may be right, most of what I've read (and I try to read all I can since I have calcareous clay) speaks more about amendment with sand - ie, tilling sand into the clay. Your sand capping, to me, doesn't meet that definition. I have been worried about even capping mine, but I have a few test areas working for a couple of years now that seem to be great. Even digging in those areas is easier than the rest of the yard, much like Connor's video.Greendoc said:
Joined
·
1,720 Posts
OK folks.... I will do a core aerate with a Toro procore aerator. After the aeration, I will collect the cores and topdress immediately after with sand and drag the sand into the holes. This will and should amend the clay with sand as was mentioned above. We shall then see if the clay turns to concrete.
This will happen likely in the fall on my channel. I had it scheduled for 2 days ago but it was a no go when my hunny shut me down when I told her that it was going to cost some coin.
This will happen likely in the fall on my channel. I had it scheduled for 2 days ago but it was a no go when my hunny shut me down when I told her that it was going to cost some coin.
Joined
·
1,720 Posts
Mr Ware is stirring the pot.Ware said:
Joined
·
2,722 Posts
The Repair Man called in a special favor. 🤔wardconnor said:
Joined
·
971 Posts
As far as mixing it in making a difference, I just read a newspaper article about baseball diamond clay that explained that most of major league fields all use the same clay out of PA and it's too hard by itself. They mix in local sand (!) to soften the clay.
Here's a more "scholarly" article that prescribes sand (!) among the options to soften clay
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/wetrt/article/2002may60.pdf
I guess if sand did harden up clay like concrete, they wouldn't use sand to soften it (just a guess ).
I've been adding sand in my own yard over the past couple of years to deal with some low areas that tend to stay wet during rainy periods of the seasons (like this past week - about 5" of rain over a few days) and it is definitely working. My theory is that the sand above the soil allows the crowns and enough of the roots to stay out of the water to obtain oxygen to avoid drowning. There's generally plenty of water under the sand in the soil year round to prevent overdrying. The lawn overall is much more walkable (no sinking in muck anymore when it's saturated) and the turf is doing well even in the wettest areas for the first time. I'm also keeping an eye on salinity due to the poor underlying drainage, but so far so good.
Here's a more "scholarly" article that prescribes sand (!) among the options to soften clay
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/wetrt/article/2002may60.pdf
I guess if sand did harden up clay like concrete, they wouldn't use sand to soften it (just a guess
).I've been adding sand in my own yard over the past couple of years to deal with some low areas that tend to stay wet during rainy periods of the seasons (like this past week - about 5" of rain over a few days) and it is definitely working. My theory is that the sand above the soil allows the crowns and enough of the roots to stay out of the water to obtain oxygen to avoid drowning. There's generally plenty of water under the sand in the soil year round to prevent overdrying. The lawn overall is much more walkable (no sinking in muck anymore when it's saturated) and the turf is doing well even in the wettest areas for the first time. I'm also keeping an eye on salinity due to the poor underlying drainage, but so far so good.
Joined
·
1,884 Posts
What does bermuda have to do with growing grass? :rofl:dfw_pilot said:
Joined
·
896 Posts
I'll just leave these here.Ware said:
https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/soil-amendments-2.pdf
https://durham.ces.ncsu.edu/files/library/32/UNH%203.PDF
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/agriculture-and-seafood/agricultural-land-and-environment/soil-nutrients/610000-3_managing_clay_soils_for_backyard_gardens.pdf
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/what_to_do_about_compacted_soil
http://extension.colostate.edu/docs/pubs/garden/07235.pdf
Seems we've stumbled upon settled science. Conversation ended? If not, can someone explain how the physical properties of S and C allow them to not create a brick-like texture?
I think it's worth noting that, despite what some people may think, their soil would need to contain no less than 40% clay, while simultaneously having higher levels of both sand and silt (or clay + very high levels of sand alone / clay + low-high levels of silt alone)in order to be classified as strictly clay.
Joined
·
971 Posts
I think this might be a key sentence from one of the papers: "However, combined with organic amendments, some sand will help open up the compacting characteristics of clay soil." First off, as you note, what we all call "clay" likely isn't actually clay. Maybe more significantly, it would be just about impossible, as a practical matter, to exclude organic matter during the process of aerating and sand topdressing. It's possible and even likely that over the course of time and many applications, the process results in a "clay" / sand / organic matter mix that is beneficial to root penetration and drainage, and is not a brick.viva_oldtrafford said:
Joined
·
896 Posts
When we aerify greens, we use a 100% sand - there's almost no point in aerifying, only to go back with material that contains OM. With that said, you're probably right, getting a 100% sand mix for the homeowner might be a little more difficult (though not impossible). I wonder if any of these guys that do leveling projects get a particle size breakdown when the load is dropped in their driveway.Delmarva Keith said:I think this might be a key sentence from one of the papers: "However, combined with organic amendments, some sand will help open up the compacting characteristics of clay soil." First off, as you note, what we all call "clay" likely isn't actually clay. Maybe more significantly, it would be just about impossible, as a practical matter, to exclude organic matter during the process of aerating and sand topdressing. It's possible and even likely that over the course of time and many applications, the process results in a "clay" / sand / organic matter mix that is beneficial to root penetration and drainage, and is not a brick.viva_oldtrafford said:
They key sentence leaves a lot to the imagination. There are 5 types of sand, and I feel that such a caveat would come with an explanation - ie: VFS @ 90% with 10% OM can help aggregate clay soil.
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
