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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Okay I will get that then. Should I spray the entire yard or the area that it is currently in and then 2 or three feet surrounding it? The advice I got for the Headway was to find the farthest spot from the bad patch and go out two feet from there.

Is there a preferred vendor that is recommended by this site or should I just get it from wherever has a good price and will ship to me?
 
If the entire yard is okay then do what you are doing. Just keep an eye out for damage elsewhere.

Just google myclobutanil and find the best deal. DoMyOwn.com is always a good vendor as well as solutions stores.com, keystonepestsolutions.com, chemicalwarehouse.com, forestrydistributing.com. I usually avoid Amazon since, like food, many items are close to expiring. Some charge shipping and others it’s included.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Okay it's on it's way.

The label says for GLS 1.2 – 2.4 per 1,000 sqft.

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That range is large, 100% if you go from one end to the other. If I am putting this in your standard handheld 2 gallon sprayer do I want to to on the low side or the high side? 1.2 oz covering 1,000 sqft is half of what 2.4 oz covering 1,000 sqft is.

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If you search creatively, you can find "cocktail" fungicides called "Luna" with both azoxystrobin and fluopyram. If you find the normal treatments aren't working, put down a corrective of this, and it'll be cured.

Edit -- also Broadform. I forgot about that one until right after I hit "post"
 
Azoxy and PPZ have a high risk of resistance with GLS. May want to alternate with Myclobutanil (Eagle). However this is a liquid
I think this is great advice.

I alternate between azoxystrobin, propiconizole and myclobutanil (or thiophanate methyl (aka Clearys 3336)). Recently Ive been using myclo as Clearys seems to be much more expensive.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
The usual "what's going on here" question. The surrounding areas are all nice and green while this spot in the phots decided to just die off.

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Added a bunch of photos to show the surrounding areas. So with that, any idea on what could be going on and then now that it's going on is there a way to fix this?

I guess first step is to rip up the brown dead grass and get to the soil underneath, right? Then since its a small area is there a way to see if the grass will grown into the spot or even with something this small do I need to get new sod or plugs?
Here is the two week update:

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I guess it's not looking any better or any worse right now. The second application of fungicide is going down on Sunday.

Do I just continue the alternating fungicide every two week cycle?

With the dead brown dried up stuff, should I rake it all out and put down some sand like I have done in the past for bare spots or do I need to get through the fungicide and treatments first? Nothing new is growing in this area right now so I am not sure what to do to get it to fill in if GLS is indeed the main problem.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Update as of now

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Two months now. I've been alternating the different fungicides every two weeks. If anything it looks like it's gotten worse and spread larger, but I dont know how much was dying off to begin with and this is just the aftermath.

I'm ready to throw down some Bermuda seed and just let it take over everything and never worry about St. Augustine grass again. There has been no additional fertilizer put down this summer as everyone said it helps spread the fungus. If after two months I still haven't beaten in then I'm giving up.

I'm going to put some sod plugs down in a week and see if they grow and start filling in the spot. I've taken all the advice I have been given and can't tell if this plague is just going to keep spreading or not. I'm at the end of what I can handle, it's never been this bad before.

All the grass around this spot now looks yellow, the rest of the lawn is getting infected with spurge, more spots went GLS and were also treated. Going back to my original post the spot was much smaller and all the grass in the lawn much greener. Maybe that's because there was no fertilization all summer and its been a brutal summer?

I need to recover from this.
 
Sorry in advance for long post. TLDR version - I think you're going to lose your SA no matter what you do, and I recommend you think about converting to a different grass variety altogether.

Detailed post:

I think the GLS was a symptom of a deeper issue with the SA plant and not the cause. A red herring, if you will. Two months of rotating fungicides with no improvement means one of two things - either none of the fungicides you are using is treating the pathogen you are dealing with, or the problem is not fungal. You are at a place where if continue to believe this is fungal, you need to break out the big guns and apply something with Fluopyram in it at a full curative rate. That said, my honest impression is that if you are already rotating three different MOA's, the problem is not fungal. It might be a disease, but it's not a fungus.

If you put down replacement SA sod, it may initially thrive, but (based on my personal experience) you will be back at this same spot again.

I think you need to start sprigging zoysia japonica into the dying areas. That looks a LOT like what my yard did that caused me to go on an anti-St Aug rage-campaign. I last some pretty large sections of my yard, and when I say it died, everything dried up and went to bare dirt, and at the borders of the dead areas, the still living St Aug does not grow back into those areas. I let one dead spot sit for an entire season, and the SA NEVER ONCE sent a single runner back into the dead areas. If I sprigged SA into those dead areas, it died. However, if I sprigged Zenith Zoysia, it thrived. As more areas started showing similar symptoms, I started sprigging zenith into the dead areas. The areas died faster than the zenith could spread, but at least the zoysia sprigs would take root and anchor the dirt. So, I just kept chasing the dying areas with more sprigs. Anyway, it is specifically that in your pictures I can see bare dirt between the patches of dead thatch that have me thinking you have what I had. If we ever shook hands, and I gave it to you, I promise it was not from a lack of hand-washing :)

I had tons of theories about what was happening and why. I never figured out why it did this, and ultimately I decided I don't care. As a matter of practicality, I can observe the pattern that something about my soil is friendly to zenith and not to SA, and I can either try to fix the soil or adapt to it, and I chose to adapt to the soil as the path of least resistance instead of trying to "correct" the soil. I see your pictures and posts, and I just see you spending a fortune in chemicals trying to fix it, and my hunch is that you are going to end up losing the war no matter how much you spend. I hope to save you spending tons of money on chemicals just to watch it die anyway. I can tell you that if you stop all fertilizing, it will slow down a bit, but it won't stop. Fertilizing seemed to accelerate the death in my case.

The two largest areas I had were large enough to consume three full pallets of zenith sod, if I had chosen to go with sod. I prefer to sprig, even though it takes longer to fill, because I seem to get better long term results. Since you are looking to replace the dead spots with sod anyway, please take this experience into consideration and investigate other cultivars. I'm not trying to push zenith or even zoysia on you, but between zoysia, bermuda, or even centipede, there are options. You can test-sprig all of them and see what does the best and go from there.

I don't have any pictures of when it was at its worst, but here are some examples of when I saw my yard doing exactly what you're seeing how the zenith looks compare to the SA in the same spots. Notice how the zenith spreads just fine, and the healthy looking SA that is right there next to it shows no runners trying to fill the bare spots. :

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I'm really sorry to give a good person bad news, but that is my 100% amateur, over-the-internet diagnosis and recommendation. Good luck

V8r
 
One more thought - switching cultivars can give you more options for controlling spruge as well. bermuda and zoysia can tolerate chemicals that SA cannot
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
One more thought - switching cultivars can give you more options for controlling spruge as well. bermuda and zoysia can tolerate chemicals that SA cannot
I'd get rid of St. Aug tomorrow if I had an escape path, the only reason I am trying to save this is because I could never figure out what else to do. I've made posts on here for years about alternatives and other ways to switch but in the end I just keep trying to keep the St. Aug going because that's what was here when I moved in. I was just talking to a neighbor this morning who is also having similar issues and I said "I'm about two weeks away from throwing down Bermuda seeds and saying screw it, let it take over, I'm done" so I'm glad you are saying this now.

The local nursery carries "Empire" Zoysia sod, but I dont think I have ever seen Zenith. I think I am going to go get some this weekend and plug the front and see what happens. I've got nothing to lose but dead spots at this point. How did you pick Zoysia over all the others?

I've always just wanted a lazy lawn that will grow and do it's thing and not require so many chemicals to keep going. Maybe this is what finally gets me over the hump to try something different.
 
I'd get rid of St. Aug tomorrow if I had an escape path, the only reason I am trying to save this is because I could never figure out what else to do. I've made posts on here for years about alternatives and other ways to switch but in the end I just keep trying to keep the St. Aug going because that's what was here when I moved in. I was just talking to a neighbor this morning who is also having similar issues and I said "I'm about two weeks away from throwing down Bermuda seeds and saying screw it, let it take over, I'm done" so I'm glad you are saying this now.

The local nursery carries "Empire" Zoysia sod, but I dont think I have ever seen Zenith. I think I am going to go get some this weekend and plug the front and see what happens. I've got nothing to lose but dead spots at this point. How did you pick Zoysia over all the others?

I've always just wanted a lazy lawn that will grow and do it's thing and not require so many chemicals to keep going. Maybe this is what finally gets me over the hump to try something different.
Again, very sorry for another long post. A lot to unpack, and I'm trying to be as helpful as possible.

If you have easy access to Empire, I'd grab a square and do some test sprigs.

Zenith is probably considered one of the "lowest" quality zoysia turfs available. But I find that sometimes "luxurious" and "princess diva" go hand in hand with turf selection. So, while I agree there are other zoysias that make a more attractive turf, consider your goals and expectations. i find zenith to be a superior turf to palmetto SA and to carpetgrass or centipede. Marginally better than tifblair, but the best sections of tifblair will fool you into thinking they are zenith until you get up close. But in terms of hardiness and resilience, I have had great results so far with zenith and will tolerate a "low quality" grass that doesn't faint or die at a moment's notice. I your yard has some shaded areas, you might find meyer is the better choice. you can always experiment and glyph later like I did.

What I did was i sprigged a variety of stuff into various areas in the yard (mine is large) and evaluated for what thrived with little to no inputs - basically a designed experiment to determine what would do the best with my soil the way it is right now.

I started with palmetto SA when I moved in - and the previous owner informed me had had resodded the whole yard more than once (could have bought a corvette for what it costs to resod this yard, so IDK what he was thinking)

I tried:
  • Zenith Zoysia (because I had a source for free)
  • Meyer Zoysia
  • Tifblair centipede
  • Common centipede
  • Carpetgrass
  • CitraBlue SA
  • Pro Vista SA

Of that list, tifblair and zenith thrived on water only, and everything else eventually died off. The citrablue was interesting. it thrived where the palmetto died, but after it took over, the palmetto out-competed it, and then after the citrablue was conquered, the palmetto died back again. Meyer does pretty good also, but I tend to see the zenith overall doing the best in the greatest variety of conditions. So, I seeded everything with tifblair centipede to attempt to address the immediate needs, and it worked, but then we had a weird winter with a lot of Indian Summers, and some of the Tifblair died off due to coming out of dormancy and then freezing.

What ultimately made my decision for zenith was the worst of the deadest areas of my yard, only zenith grew. Even meyer failed to thrive in the worst spots. it was like the ground "rejected" the sprigs the way a transplant patient rejects a donor organ.

I don't actively attempt to kill off other stuff. I just chase the dead / dying areas with zenith sprigs. So, right now, I have some very lush areas and some areas that look like I don't know how to do lawncare.

I considered some other zoysia varieties, and most of the ones I considered, @Greendoc posted up saying those varieties should come with a large patch warning label. After some back and forth, his recommendation to me was to run with Zenith, and I did.

If I was to bring in anything different to try, it would be Innovation or Lobo. But I cannot get those on demand, and I have Zenith for free and accessible now that I have enough square footage conquered.

Now, to answer your "lazy" lawn comment. Since I started this process, I have not applied fertilizer for four consective seasons now, and this year, I was able to get through the entire summer, and the first time I watered was last weekend after nearly a month with no rain. That's about as low input as it gets.

Another anecdote for you. A relative of mine who lives about 5 miles away was having similar problems and saw how zenith was working for me, so he went to get some. He was talked into either zeon, zorro, or geo (can't remember) by the sod supplier, and it failed to thrive, and he was disappointed.

To pre-emptively answer what might be an obvious question - "Why didn't I test bermuda?" Because everything I know about bermuda is it wants and needs all the fertilizer. A yard as large as mine is difficult and expensive to water and fertilize. I was specifically interested in what thrived on nothing. And I know that bermuda will grow on concrete, so I know it will grow. That said, I do have some common bermuda attempting to creep into one of the dead areas, and it's not really progressing much at all.

Edit - One more adder - Large yard = 54" ZTR mower. Zenith tolerates rotary mowing rather well. That was a concern with zoysia I had going into it.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
During the transition period how did you mow having both St. Aug and Zoysia? SA wants to go real high and Z wants to be lower, right?

I'm going tomorrow morning to look for the Empire the nursery carries and if not waiting until the local sod place opens on Sunday to see what they have. Either way I'm giving it a shot.

So I am guessing I should clear out all the brown dead SA and get it to be clear dirt and then plug away?
 
I mow at a what I consider "tall but reasonable" for the zenith. Around 2-2.5". If i cut shorter, i will randomly scalp and the SA will die even more faster-er, and I cannot keep up with the dead spots. where I'm mowing seems to balance the spread of zenith with the death rate of the SA for the majority of the yard.

If you're going to sprig, yes, get the dead matter out of there. Maybe hand till in a bad of black kow for good measure. I honestly don't know how well anything will take heading into October, but it's really not that expensive to try. You could maybe just throw down a couple squares of sod and let them take root. Then, you have a sprig source going into the spring - assuming it roots and survives the winter.
 
Start plugging the Empire into the SA dead spots. Clear out the dead material and plug away. You can plug it any time of the year but it will only spread during the season. I think it's a good idea to get them in the ground early and settled down so they are ready to go next season. You can always get rid of the SA whenever and where ever you want. If you are going to chop up and sprig the Empire, I'd wait until late next spring.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Well, lets see how this goes. Decided to not wait until tomorrow. I pulled up all the dead SA, put down a layer of play sand to mix in with the soil, then added in some Scotts Turf Builder lawn soil. Watered it all in once it was done.

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So, now we just wait? Do I need to water this every day 3 times a day like new SA sod asks for? If the ground isnt just poison like it was with the SA this should hopefully do something?

If you are going to chop up and sprig the Empire, I'd wait until late next spring.
What is sprigging vs plugging?
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Wow so its breaking apart the sod or plugs to almost individual pieces of grass and planting them individually? Is there an advantage to this vs doing sod or smaller plugs?

How does my attempt look? That thread has experts compared to what mine looks like. Should I water a whole bunch for a while to get it established?
 
@Skenny your plugs look great. The advantage to sprigging is you can get a pallet of sod to cover a lot more square feet and it fills in quicker than plugs. The best thing is sod for immediate coverage if it's in the budget. Plugs are nice as well since you can pretty much immediately treat them as established turf when it comes to pre- and post-emergents.
 
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