@Grasshopper I think @Sinclair uses that product.
@gergelybg I just called K4L:
Extreme Blend:
70% Amino Acids
10% each Humic, Fulvic and Kelp
@gergelybg I just called K4L:
Extreme Blend:
70% Amino Acids
10% each Humic, Fulvic and Kelp
Canadian substitutes for Milo etc.
This thread is for substitute products available in Canada due to Ringer and Milorganite not being commercially imported to Canada. I will place a hold on the second post position and use that for making the list as things are mentioned in this thread. Unfortunately, Provinces and even Municipalities have gotten into the act and ban products already approved by the Federal Gov. left and right, while the same products are acceptable in the next Province or even next municipality over.
It is my hope that we can bring all the scattered items together in one, easy to find, thread.
I'm not including prices because these will likely differ depending on where you are, just based on shipping.
Check to see what you can get locally and compare prices based on the actual nutrients in in the product.
For me, the Home Hardware large bag of 9-2-2 comes out the cheapest for Nitrogen, but locally available Turkey Trot has a good amount of P and K, so for at least Spring and Fall, it's what I'm going to use. It doesn't hurt that I need exactly one full 20KG bag to do all my lawn areas either. 2/3rds of the bag in the front, and 1/3rd for the back.
Update: After some mulling around, I have decided that perhaps a semi-synthetic is the way to go for me. The Grigg 16-4-8 from EvenSpray in Winnipeg clocks in at an even better price per lb of N than the Home Hardware stuff, but the 55lb bag is not cheap. Still, it will give me 3 full applications of 1 lb N per 1000 on my lawn. It also contains a bunch of micros and humic which I'm sure my lawn needs badly.
:mrgreen:
It is my hope that we can bring all the scattered items together in one, easy to find, thread.
I'm not including prices because these will likely differ depending on where you are, just based on shipping.
Check to see what you can get locally and compare prices based on the actual nutrients in in the product.
For me, the Home Hardware large bag of 9-2-2 comes out the cheapest for Nitrogen, but locally available Turkey Trot has a good amount of P and K, so for at least Spring and Fall, it's what I'm going to use. It doesn't hurt that I need exactly one full 20KG bag to do all my lawn areas either. 2/3rds of the bag in the front, and 1/3rd for the back.
Update: After some mulling around, I have decided that perhaps a semi-synthetic is the way to go for me. The Grigg 16-4-8 from EvenSpray in Winnipeg clocks in at an even better price per lb of N than the Home Hardware stuff, but the 55lb bag is not cheap. Still, it will give me 3 full applications of 1 lb N per 1000 on my lawn. It also contains a bunch of micros and humic which I'm sure my lawn needs badly.
:mrgreen:
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@Grasshopper 2000 sqft....put down the whole bag.
80% Humic 1 kg 17 CANHarts said:@Grasshopper I think @Sinclair uses that product.
@gergelybg I just called K4L:
Extreme Blend:
70% Amino Acids
10% each Humic, Fulvic and Kelp
100% Kelp 1 kg 70CAN (sells for 1/2 price by the manufacturer but it is in Australia...)
You can make 10 kg of Extreme Blend minus the Aminos. I don't know...
@Kaba
Totally itching to get going on the blitz and wanted to give it a kick start with the cooler weather now.. Also wanted to start adding organics before it's too cold... Will be going heavy on cracked corn and alfalfa next spring.
Ive tried to minimize my irrigation as much as possible this season...
I've irrigated about 3" total so far and hand watered a few spots occasionally. Front yard is decent.. backyard is struggling..
I think I'm just gonna get rid of the whole bag as @Sinclair mentioned.
@Harts have you ordered the extreme blend yet? I was gonna get it also and it seems shipping is same for 2x1lb bags...
Totally itching to get going on the blitz and wanted to give it a kick start with the cooler weather now.. Also wanted to start adding organics before it's too cold... Will be going heavy on cracked corn and alfalfa next spring.
Ive tried to minimize my irrigation as much as possible this season...
I've irrigated about 3" total so far and hand watered a few spots occasionally. Front yard is decent.. backyard is struggling..
I think I'm just gonna get rid of the whole bag as @Sinclair mentioned.
@Harts have you ordered the extreme blend yet? I was gonna get it also and it seems shipping is same for 2x1lb bags...
Make sure you water if you fert to avoid pushing growth on stressed grass. Don't worry too much, the organics will still breakdown for a long time I'm sure we'll have days over 20 end of Sept the way things have been going lol.
If your goal is fast %om you can always topdress 1/4 maneure or compost, doesn't have to be organic fert.
In my scheduling I found it hard to have a good organic program with the urea blitz, simply too much N in the fall to allow for much warm weather feeding. Depending on your goals and what your soil needs you could push a lot of alfalfa in lieu of the blitz. On a different forum last year this guy experimented with putting down a crazy amount of soy, like biweekly for most of the season literally no reported adverse effects just super healthy grass. If you're putting down pure organics (no sop or ams added) it seems like an N limit doesn't exist.
On the flipside I'm considering next year to only foliar apply N in the spring with a goal to be under 1#N total by August and push 2#N over August, September and October. I think my lawn gets too much N (last year I was almost 5#) I have been applying a lot of humic to my calcitic lawn this year and it has noticeably released previously unavailable nutrients, it feels like I fert when I apply humic.
Just some things to consider to make lawncare more confusing lol.
If your goal is fast %om you can always topdress 1/4 maneure or compost, doesn't have to be organic fert.
In my scheduling I found it hard to have a good organic program with the urea blitz, simply too much N in the fall to allow for much warm weather feeding. Depending on your goals and what your soil needs you could push a lot of alfalfa in lieu of the blitz. On a different forum last year this guy experimented with putting down a crazy amount of soy, like biweekly for most of the season literally no reported adverse effects just super healthy grass. If you're putting down pure organics (no sop or ams added) it seems like an N limit doesn't exist.
On the flipside I'm considering next year to only foliar apply N in the spring with a goal to be under 1#N total by August and push 2#N over August, September and October. I think my lawn gets too much N (last year I was almost 5#) I have been applying a lot of humic to my calcitic lawn this year and it has noticeably released previously unavailable nutrients, it feels like I fert when I apply humic.
Just some things to consider to make lawncare more confusing lol.
For illustratitve purposes, you would need a ballpark of 5lbs of extreme blend per gallon of water to make something equivalent-ish to RGS.Harts said:@Grasshopper I think @Sinclair uses that product.
@gergelybg I just called K4L:
Extreme Blend:
70% Amino Acids
10% each Humic, Fulvic and Kelp
10oz of 80% humic gets you to the 6% plus 4/5oz of fulvic and kelp to make a gallon of RGS otherwise.
@cfinden I'm interested to see how those varieties of TTTF work for you.
What's the bottle to the left? I can't quite make it out.
What's the bottle to the left? I can't quite make it out.
@SNOWBOB11 me too! I've got too much shade for KBG, figured elite TTTF was the next best thing. These cultivars can be mowed low as well (at least ~1") kinda low.
The big bottle is Ethofumesate 41% (prograss, POA constrictor).
I got vetoed on a full reno because we're having a baby due on Aug 15, fair enough haha. So I'm planning blanket sprays of Tenacity and Ethofumesate to hopefully kill all undesirable grasses and maybe some FF. Then I'll overseed the whole thing with the SSS TTTF mix.
The big bottle is Ethofumesate 41% (prograss, POA constrictor).
I got vetoed on a full reno because we're having a baby due on Aug 15, fair enough haha. So I'm planning blanket sprays of Tenacity and Ethofumesate to hopefully kill all undesirable grasses and maybe some FF. Then I'll overseed the whole thing with the SSS TTTF mix.
What's the best option for molasses in GTA?
(I want to break down the dead grass clippings -not necessarily thatch- trapped under my living lawn as per:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12692 )
I've found Molasses Powder at Kelp4Less but there's no recommended application rate:
https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/molasses-powder/
I've found blackstrap molasses at gardener's pantry but it's pretty expensive ($13 for a bottle which is only enough to do 1 application in my yard)
https://www.gardenerspantry.ca/blackstrap-molasses.html
How frequently should I be applying this stuff anyways?
(I want to break down the dead grass clippings -not necessarily thatch- trapped under my living lawn as per:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12692 )
I've found Molasses Powder at Kelp4Less but there's no recommended application rate:
https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/molasses-powder/
I've found blackstrap molasses at gardener's pantry but it's pretty expensive ($13 for a bottle which is only enough to do 1 application in my yard)
https://www.gardenerspantry.ca/blackstrap-molasses.html
How frequently should I be applying this stuff anyways?
Try this place: https://www.agsolcanada.com/e-store/bio-stimulants/molasses-non-gmo-black-strap
I've never ordered from them.
I saw your other post. I'd rent a power rake and get it done. I've also done it in the Spring in the past.
I've never ordered from them.
I saw your other post. I'd rent a power rake and get it done. I've also done it in the Spring in the past.
I ordered 2 times already. They are legit. If shipping cost is high at checkout, contact them directly and they will do their best to find best rate. Sonja Cosic will take care of you.Harts said:Try this place: https://www.agsolcanada.com/e-store/bio-stimulants/molasses-non-gmo-black-strap
I've never ordered from them.
I saw your other post. I'd rent a power rake and get it done. I've also done it in the Spring in the past.
I've bought from Amazon to make D-Thatch, about $13 for 3lbs of liquid, not the best price but one bottle was all I needed to make a gallon.
Blackstrap is a pita to breakdown with ams I found.
Additionally: I found if you have too much dead grass (aka dead yellow grass from stress or disease) it won't break down much from just stimulating microbes via molasses. You need to follow the principles of composting where you have a good mix of green and brown to properly breakdown, otherwise you just get a matted layer of straw that stops your lawns lifeline and breaks down at a ridiculously slow pace. So slow in my case that it never really shrinks as more gets added every year.
I have been converted to a believer in using the sun joe. Couldn't believe how much pure yellow I pulled out. If you have a small amount (like 1 or 2 times you mulch mowed when grass was too long) the molasses will help, but if you had die out over summer... There usually aren't enough warm days left to break it all down in my opinion, it only works efficiently while it's hot and we won't get long enough good heat in the fall.
Blackstrap is a pita to breakdown with ams I found.
Additionally: I found if you have too much dead grass (aka dead yellow grass from stress or disease) it won't break down much from just stimulating microbes via molasses. You need to follow the principles of composting where you have a good mix of green and brown to properly breakdown, otherwise you just get a matted layer of straw that stops your lawns lifeline and breaks down at a ridiculously slow pace. So slow in my case that it never really shrinks as more gets added every year.
I have been converted to a believer in using the sun joe. Couldn't believe how much pure yellow I pulled out. If you have a small amount (like 1 or 2 times you mulch mowed when grass was too long) the molasses will help, but if you had die out over summer... There usually aren't enough warm days left to break it all down in my opinion, it only works efficiently while it's hot and we won't get long enough good heat in the fall.
I'm leaning this way... Plus I've been waiting way too long between cuts for years (had 2 kids, busy work schedule, long summer vacays, other priorities) and there's just tons of crap in there I fret will never break down no matter how good my mowing regimen is going forward.Kaba said:I've bought from Amazon to make D-Thatch, about $13 for 3lbs of liquid, not the best price but one bottle was all I needed to make a gallon.
Blackstrap is a pita to breakdown with ams I found.
Additionally: I found if you have too much dead grass (aka dead yellow grass from stress or disease) it won't break down much from just stimulating microbes via molasses. You need to follow the principles of composting where you have a good mix of green and brown to properly breakdown, otherwise you just get a matted layer of straw that stops your lawns lifeline and breaks down at a ridiculously slow pace. So slow in my case that it never really shrinks as more gets added every year.
I have been converted to a believer in using the sun joe. Couldn't believe how much pure yellow I pulled out. If you have a small amount (like 1 or 2 times you mulch mowed when grass was too long) the molasses will help, but if you had die out over summer... There usually aren't enough warm days left to break it all down in my opinion, it only works efficiently while it's hot and we won't get long enough good heat in the fall.
@Kaba great write-up, I agree 100%. For these reasons I'm debating whether I should mulch mow at all. I'm sure there's benefits, but can we create similar benefits with organic fertilizers like SBM, alfalfa, cracked corn, etc?
I just dethatched my lawn for the first time and took out 15 bags of dead stuff.
I just dethatched my lawn for the first time and took out 15 bags of dead stuff.
Yup this summer has changed my perspective too on mulch mowing.
However, I do not believe that the clippings are directly my issue. I have an old lawn, full of fine fescue and fungus and heat annihilates it. So I am always riddled with a ton of random brown dead 4+ inch stalks of grass (as opposed to the mulched from 1 inch to <0.5 inch clippings which I don't think leads to build-up). These dead stalks thin the lawn, fail to breakdown at a reasonable pace, and due to the humidity spread and basically encourage the fungus. So bagging my clippings at least stops spreading the fungus, and reduces the buildup of debris that's being blocked from all of the dead grass.
I believe mulch mowing is great if:
1) you're cutting <1 inch off at any given time
2) you're mulching mower is properly set up to mulch
3) you have a good quality mulching blade
4) you water properly and lawn isn't excessively heat stressed/dying
5) you do not have a fungus issue
Without a proper inground irrigation system, and the massive hassle fungicides are here, I have just given up on this battle and am going to likely only bag next season to see if there is improvement, and of course mechanically dethatch when dry in the growing season (nearly destroyed my lawn dethatching first week of May last year, never again). The dethatcher really gets rid of all the stuff that summer ruined before it starts to clog up on the thatch layer.
edit: mechanical dethatch was actually last weekend of April, not first week of May.
However, I do not believe that the clippings are directly my issue. I have an old lawn, full of fine fescue and fungus and heat annihilates it. So I am always riddled with a ton of random brown dead 4+ inch stalks of grass (as opposed to the mulched from 1 inch to <0.5 inch clippings which I don't think leads to build-up). These dead stalks thin the lawn, fail to breakdown at a reasonable pace, and due to the humidity spread and basically encourage the fungus. So bagging my clippings at least stops spreading the fungus, and reduces the buildup of debris that's being blocked from all of the dead grass.
I believe mulch mowing is great if:
1) you're cutting <1 inch off at any given time
2) you're mulching mower is properly set up to mulch
3) you have a good quality mulching blade
4) you water properly and lawn isn't excessively heat stressed/dying
5) you do not have a fungus issue
Without a proper inground irrigation system, and the massive hassle fungicides are here, I have just given up on this battle and am going to likely only bag next season to see if there is improvement, and of course mechanically dethatch when dry in the growing season (nearly destroyed my lawn dethatching first week of May last year, never again). The dethatcher really gets rid of all the stuff that summer ruined before it starts to clog up on the thatch layer.
edit: mechanical dethatch was actually last weekend of April, not first week of May.
Mulch and thatch are different... Mulch will turn to thatch if not timely decomposed. Not all thatch is due to 'bad' mulching.
KBG with its rhizomes is much more prompt to form thatch than not spreading grasses.
Some thatch is good!
Micro activity in the lawn is important.
Those are just few points to consider.
KBG with its rhizomes is much more prompt to form thatch than not spreading grasses.
Some thatch is good!
Micro activity in the lawn is important.
Those are just few points to consider.
@Kaba you mentioned you almost destroyed your lawn last spring with a mechanical dethatch. What happened? I power raked the first week of may in 2018 and my lawn grew back thicker and healthier than ever.
2
Scalped the living daylights out of the lawn in more spots than just this. It was way too aggressive and my lawn was way behind the neighborhood greening. I checked the dates I actually did it last weekend of April, that pic was May 1st. It took until about May 20th the blend in. Lesson learned grass was too fragile and wet to do it and it was too cool for the lawn to recover. It never thickned up again (again barely any kbg here) and I was babying it with fert, water and seeded. Weeds were a battle in those areas all spring.
Doing it again I would wait 2 weeks to do it when it's a bit warmer in May, the grass has started to strengthen, threat of frost passes. I know it sounds silly 14 days but that would put me at 3rd-ish lawn cut, knowing that the grass is truly growing and a lot more resilient. I think I damaged a ton of crowns.
To put it in perspective, this is April 30 one year after:
Doing it again I would wait 2 weeks to do it when it's a bit warmer in May, the grass has started to strengthen, threat of frost passes. I know it sounds silly 14 days but that would put me at 3rd-ish lawn cut, knowing that the grass is truly growing and a lot more resilient. I think I damaged a ton of crowns.
To put it in perspective, this is April 30 one year after:
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