CaffeinatedLawnCare Lawn Renovation (Midnight, Mazama, Bewitched)

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CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2021

Hi everyone, looking at doing a renovation on my lawn. Just recently had a large tree removed from the front yard which killed about 30% of my ~2000SQFT lawn and left the other 70% bumpy and gouged from tree limbs falling.

Plan to kill it off in the coming weeks with 3-4 apps of glyphosate, level it out/fill in the hole left from the tree, and plant a blend of 40% Midnight, 30% Mazama, 30% Bewitched, which I recently purchased a 10lb bag of from Seed Super Store.

Once the yard is leveled I plan to go over it with an aerator then make a couple passes with my scarifier before laying down the seed, applying a blanket app of mesotrione and covering with peat moss. I also plan to rent a lawn roller when I seed to press it in a bit/help flatten everything out after the initial leveling. I'll also be following up with blanket apps of mesotrione after 4 weeks, then weekly, for a total of 4 apps since I'll be seeding in the Spring.

My only concern at the moment is, being in Wisconsin, it usually starts getting too hot around July which doesn't leave me much time (plan for seed down around May 1st-15th). Might have about 1.5 months of decent growing time before summer.

I have irrigation so I'm planning on just watering the new seedlings throughout the summer to keep them alive until fall when I'll do part 2 and scarify/re-seed.

Do you guys think it will be worth it/I'll be able to keep the kbg alive through the summer with such short growing time in spring? Or should I just throw some seed down in the spot where the hole is (to keep it from being a mud pit all summer) and wait for the full renovation until fall?

Let me know your opinions and I'll post some pictures of the renovation as I progress.

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cleohioturf

· #2 · Apr 3, 2021

Honestly if you are going to put that much effort in, you are clearly looking for high level results. Don't do it now, wait until late July early aug to start and be ready. KBG can take so long and then you risk it being mature enough for heat. I did 90% kbg and 10% rye, the rye helped cover the area quickly and retain moisture but I started mowing when that hit 3/4" to make sure the canopy was still open for the kbg.

I would recommend two glypho apps, I rushed my last reno due to weather and only got one app, now I'm frustrated with some poa. I wish I would have done glypho, wait three weeks, glypho again, wait two weeks, then clear the area.

jskierko

· #3 · Apr 3, 2021

In my opinion, definitely too late if you still need to do a complete kill off of current yard. If you were starting with a blank slate today and you could seed right away I'd say it would be doable with proper diligence. But if you seed in the beginning of May, you aren't getting out of sprout and pout until June and with Midwest weather it could be 80+ degrees for several straight days by that point. Seems like you want to do it right. Seed the hole, reno in the fall.

Slingblade_847

· #4 · Apr 3, 2021

I agree with those posts above. 100% wait if full reno. You can plan the timing of everything, but almost never will it go according to plan. Your glypho May take longer to kill, weather may prohibit timing of seed down, etc etc. There are a lot of variables that we have no control over. If you haven't yet, look in the lawn journal threads for renos and it will provide a lot of insight, and most likely examples of how things never go as planned.

M32075

· #5 · Apr 3, 2021

I agree with the above. Seed the hole with perineal rye seed you can have a lawn in two weeks then go with your renovation at the right time. You can rye seed cheap at hancock seed ships free and 10% off.

john5246

· #6 · Apr 3, 2021

I have done 2 spring renovations now with KBG and you will be just fine. Here is how to proceed:

1. Make sure to do the first round of glyphosate early enough. In the spring it takes a long time for the grass to turn yellow to indicate that it's dead (even with round-up brand glyphosate). I was not able to seed till June 1st because of this. Get your glyphosate down on a nice sunny day in the first or 2nd week of May. Some of it always survives so you will need a 2nd round and then also to spot treat some patches before dropping seed.

Drop you seed in the final week of May or middle of may if you think it's going to be warm. Remember that temps affect germination rate so you can adjust your seed rate slightly higher to compensate. Be sure to save enough seed to fill in any bare spots. 1-2lbs of extra seed on hand should do it.

In July you need to watch the grass carefully and water. Seeding in spring requires more water as you have to make the seedlings last through July/August.

The benefit with seeding in the spring is you can do the "fall nitrogen blitz" (see the guide in this forum), so your grass will begin to fill in quite well before going dormant.

No renovation is easy to be honest. There's always challenges no matter when you seed. Go ahead and do it now since that's what you were learning toward anyway.

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SNOWBOB11

· #7 · Apr 3, 2021

I would definitely wait until late summer to do this. As others have said your clearly looking for high quality results. To put that effort in and then seed at a non ideal time could be a waste. In reality you only need to wait a extra 2 1/2 - 3 months from your planned seed down day. Renovations can have many challenges. Especially a all bluegrass reno. The best way to be successful is to take out the unnecessary variables if you can.

CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 4, 2021

Thanks for the responses.

My thought was that since I have 10lbs of seed (@2lbs/1000 would be 4lbs for my 2k sqft) I would have at least two attempts. I figured that any germination/surviving grass would only be a plus for the fall attempt (essentially turning the fall seeding into an overseed project, with the added benefit of already having killed off all the undesirable grasses/weeds in the spring so I can time the second attempt a lot easier/sooner in the fall).

If I wait to start the reno until fall, when should I be doing my glyphosate applications? The lawn would be mostly dormant in July, so wouldn't I have to wait until August to start the glyphosate? That would put me around the end of August for seed down?

CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 4, 2021

2

Thought I'd add some pictures so you can see what I'm working with.

Last fall (October 2020)

Current after tree removal (March 2021)

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M32075

· #10 · Apr 4, 2021

It's not a big lot you might be able to pull it off but still voting for a quick total rye over seed now you can have a lawn in two weeks to at least get you to smile and have no soil erosion then go for the full KBG this fall

SNOWBOB11

· #11 · Apr 4, 2021

Don't let the lawn go dormant this summer. Keep it irrigated so your spraying glyphosate on a lawn that is currently growing. The lawn looks thick. You don't have to overseed this lawn this spring. If you wanted to only seed the area where the tree was that would be fine.

Start your glyphosate apps in late June or early July so you can get in 3 apps of gly before seeding. In your area you can seed end of July or first week of August.

Jay20nj

· #12 · Apr 5, 2021

Although i have never done a spring reno i believe there are desinct advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages would be the ability to kill off all poa a which is plaguing my fall reno currently. My fall reno experienced multiple washouts which carried both the seed and the tencity resulting in bare spots and a ton of poa a. Less washouts in the spring
Disadvantages would be you need to irigate like crazy to keep your young grass alive and you will have crabgrass. Imo crabgrass is easier to deal with than poa a. The main part will be keeping it alive through the heat and then being proactive with pre m in the fall.

Many have failed with a spring reno but it is possible.

KoopHawk

· #13 · Apr 5, 2021

john5246 said:
I have done 2 spring renovations now with KBG and you will be just fine. Here is how to proceed:

1. Make sure to do the first round of glyphosate early enough. In the spring it takes a long time for the grass to turn yellow to indicate that it's dead (even with round-up brand glyphosate). I was not able to seed till June 1st because of this. Get your glyphosate down on a nice sunny day in the first or 2nd week of May. Some of it always survives so you will need a 2nd round and then also to spot treat some patches before dropping seed.

Drop you seed in the final week of May or middle of may if you think it's going to be warm. Remember that temps affect germination rate so you can adjust your seed rate slightly higher to compensate. Be sure to save enough seed to fill in any bare spots. 1-2lbs of extra seed on hand should do it.

In July you need to watch the grass carefully and water. Seeding in spring requires more water as you have to make the seedlings last through July/August.

The benefit with seeding in the spring is you can do the "fall nitrogen blitz" (see the guide in this forum), so your grass will begin to fill in quite well before going dormant.

No renovation is easy to be honest. There's always challenges no matter when you seed. Go ahead and do it now since that's what you were learning toward anyway.

This.

If you have irrigation, I wouldn't let a spring seed/reno scare you off especially such a small area. I seeded 17k sq ft May 31 last year and it turned out great. Just need to monitor your water and I put down fungicides just to be safe. I detailed everything in my journal last year.

CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 5, 2021

Thanks for the reply, I have irrigation

I'm still debating between the two. I have the stump grinder coming back tomorrow to grind down some high spots (want to make sure the roots have room to grow). If I start spraying glyphosate this week, I could potentially seed on April 25th. Timeline would look something like:

April 7th - gly
April 14th - gly
April 17th - scalp/scarify/aerate (is 10 days from the first app and 3 days after the second app enough time to get a full kill?)
April 18th - fill low spots/level lawn
April 21st - last gly app on anything that remains
April 25th - (potentially power rake/scarify one more time?) Seed down/tenacity app for pre-em

On the other hand, delaying would give me extra time to really level out the lawn and as SNOWBOB11 said I can keep the grass actively growing through summer and start the kill process earlier (early July) in order to time the seeding for the end of July/Aug 1st. I feel like this will result in less rushing to get things done in terms of prep work.

Let me know what you think about the above timeline (and questions).

Thanks.

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KoopHawk

· #15 · Apr 5, 2021

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:
Thanks for the reply, I have irrigation

I'm still debating between the two. I have the stump grinder coming back tomorrow to grind down some high spots (want to make sure the roots have room to grow). If I start spraying glyphosate this week, I could potentially seed on April 25th. Timeline would look something like:

April 7th - gly
April 14th - gly
April 17th - scalp/scarify/aerate (is 10 days from the first app and 3 days after the second app enough time to get a full kill?)
April 18th - fill low spots/level lawn
April 21st - last gly app on anything that remains
April 25th - (potentially power rake/scarify one more time?) Seed down/tenacity app for pre-em

On the other hand, delaying would give me extra time to really level out the lawn and as SNOWBOB11 said I can keep the grass actively growing through summer and start the kill process earlier (early July) in order to time the seeding for the end of July/Aug 1st. I feel like this will result in less rushing to get things done in terms of prep work.

Let me know what you think about the above timeline (and questions).

Thanks.

It really depends how level you want things to be. If you want a putting green, having all summer to do it might be beneficial. If you want it pretty level, you should have plenty of time this spring.

Skip the scalp/scarify/aerate on April 17th and do that on seed down day or the day before. Why do it twice?

Water the day after you gly so the grass processes it as much as possible.

What's your weather look like for the next couple weeks? NW IA is pretty close weather wise to the southern 1/3 of Wisconsin and it is going to significantly cool back down. This might be a question for someone else but how much does grass process gly at lower temps?

CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 5, 2021

I bought a Sun Joe scarifier for christmas, maybe just looking for additional reasons/opportunities to test it out haha, figured an extra pass or two with the scarifier before aerating and leveling couldn't hurt. Not sure if I'll have time to do everything in one weekend so I was thinking I would break it up into two weekends (17/18th and the 24/25th).

The weather is looking pretty decent, the 14 day forecast shows highs between 55-60 and lows of around 40-45. Additionally the averages for the month are pretty similar around 55-60 and lows down to 40.

I have been seeing a lot of grass greening up lately.

Slingblade_847

· #17 · Apr 5, 2021

Just remember that if you aerate, you might be exposing more weeds that will show up when you start watering seed. And depending on where you get your dirt from, you might be bringing in more weeds that would require the fallowing process. I brought in top soil for my reno and some unknown weed went crazy. Luckily i was able to glypho that before seed down. Like others have said...spring probably is possible. I just think you should assess what people have said and make your own determination. I think it's all a gamble. But your odds are more in favor come fall in my opinion.

...this is a good thread

CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 5, 2021

Thanks Slingblade, I'm not as worried about weeds as I am about killing all the current Fescue grass and getting the new KBG grass to survive summer, but as evidenced by KoopHawk it can be done with enough water.

Weeds can always be killed later with some herbicide and a pre-emergent for next spring. As long as I end up with (mostly) KBG in the yard it will fill in the dead spots.

When I did my spring Fescue renovation (I liked the wide leaf blades and drought resistance at the time, but now want the darker color and spreading abilities of KBG) I had an extra 3-4 weeks of growing time that I won't have for the KBG (due to the long germination period). That is why I was more worried about the length of time, but seeing KoopHawks renovation has put my fears there at ease. He was able to seed around May 31st in temperatures much higher than I would have and I would be seeding here about a month earlier than that.

Both his KBG renovation and my previous spring Fescue renovation turned out fine as seen in the (first) picture I posted earlier, which was taken near the end of fall.

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CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #19 · Apr 7, 2021

Got a few goodies today. Wanted to replace my impact sprinklers which aren't very consistent with the coverage. I saw some reviews on this sprinkler and it seems pretty gentle/consistent and was in stock locally, going to pick up one or two more to make sure I have full coverage. Wanted to play around with a water timer last year as well but never bit the bullet, so I decided to pick one up for this reno.

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CaffeinatedLawnCare

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 10, 2021

Finished filling the hole from the tree, as well as all the divots and problem areas that I knew were low.

Also, put down the first app of glyphosate (a little late on my projected timeline, but it has been raining on and off the last 3 days and I didn't want it washing away right after I put it on).

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