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Grass Clippins said:
@rockinmylawn label recommends 24 hrs. Also no mowing two days before and after application.
DocV said:
@rockinmylawn it is best if it does not rain for 12-24 hours after application
Thank you both. Will have time it perfectly this weekend if I go for it.

As far as air temperature is there any temp limits esp. when Triclopyr is included in the mix?
 
DocV said:
@rockinmylawn Triclopyr should be included in the first 2 Pylex applications, see my post at the beginning of this thread. Triclopyr in its ester form is quite volatile so I spray it just before sunset to minimize its vapor drift.
re: Triclopyr - So no worry about temperature but more about wind - true?
 
Discussion starter · #167 ·
Volatility and wind drift are two different things. You can get drift of the spray from wind but volatile chemicals like triclopyr ester form a vapor at lower temperatures which can disburse either as a vapor and by the wind. At higher temps like 80F+ triclopyr ester forms a vapor just from the increased temp. Long story short with triclopyr ester you need to worry about both wind and temp.
 
ergray3 said:
I used fenoxaprop instead of fluazifop since fenoxaprop was available inexpensively in diluted form from HD via BioAdvanced Bermudagrass control. I added triclopyr as well.
@ergray3 How did you mix the BioAdvanced Bermudagrass Control with the triclopyr and did you find it effective?

I don't know how I missed this but the Ornamec product (Fluazifop) is not to be used with KBG.
 
Old Hickory said:
@ergray3 How did you mix the BioAdvanced Bermudagrass Control with the triclopyr and did you find it effective?

I don't know how I missed this but the Ornamec product (Fluazifop) is not to be used with KBG.
I sprayed fenoxaprop and 0.75oz/M of triclopyr the day we hit GDD10C 200. Mixed with water carrier at 1g/M, nothing else.

Double check my math but if I recall correctly the BioAdvanced bottle was 32 oz and labelled for 4000 sqft total coverage. I figured out the concentration of AI on the BioAdvanced product vs the recommended rate of the Acclaim Extra (trade name for pro concentrated fenoxaprop) and it worked out that 8oz of the BioAdvanced product was the same AI as recommended for 1000sqft on the Acclaim Extra label. I measured out enough for 1.5k from the bottle and put it in my backpack sprayer (it comes in one of those hose end bottles but that unscrews, I ignored that particular warning on the label haha). When I sprayed, I treated the ~1.5k area worst affected the previous year by memory, the Bermuda had not grown enough to be visible in the TTTF canopy. Later in the summer, that area very clearly outperformed the adjacent area only treated by fall Pylex/triclopyr. I estimate control rates in the spring treated vs non treated area to be about 90% vs 50-60%. This is anecdotal unfortunately, so YMMV, but I think it was very effective.

Next spring I will apply to the entire yard instead of just the worst area. I might go ahead and purchase a bottle of acclaim as multiple sprayings of bio advanced will quickly eat into the upfront cost savings and my neighbor's common Bermuda isn't going anywhere. I'll keep posting my results!
 
Discussion starter · #170 ·
@ergray3 you nailed it. As you saw the math is a bit complicated, and will bring flashbacks to high school chemistry, because Bayer Bermudagrass Control for Lawns is more dilute than Acclaim Extra (the commercial product). This paper by the University of Tennessee on controlling bermuda in fescue lawns recommends 20-28 oz Acclaim Extra per acre (https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W237.pdf). You need to find the total concentration of active ingredient (ai), which is fenoxaprop, of Acclaim Extra per 1000 sq.ft. and then apply that amount of the diluted Bayer product to get the same ai concentration/M (I will abbreviate 1000 sq.ft. as M). Here are links to the labels for each product and their concentration is on the label https://www.environmentalscience.ba...edstates/documents/resource-library/product-labels/acclaim-extra-herbicide.ashx and https://www.bioadvanced.com/sites/d...(CM) 3-1-19388438c86a07b727356be11d0a4280ad2038c4e978ffb4e36613a53a40165f19.pdf).

First convert to the concentration of Acclaim Extra from gal to oz: 0.57 lb. ai Acclaim Extra/gal (from label) x 1 gal/128oz = 0.00445 lb. ai/oz

Now convert 20-28 oz/A to oz/M: 20 oz/A x 1A/43.50M = 0.459 oz/M to 28 oz/A x 1A/43.56M = 0.643 oz/M

Calc the lb. ai required/M: 0.459 oz/M x 0.00445 lb. ai/oz = 0.00204 lb. ai/M to 0.643 oz/M x 0.00445 lb. ai/oz = 0.00286 lb. ai/M. This is the concentration range of fenoxaprop needed per 1000 sq.ft. per the UT article.

Now calc the amount of Bayer product it takes to achieve that concentration of fenoxaprop/M. The Bayer product's concentration is 0.035 lb. ai/gal so convert this to lb. ai/oz as follows:

0.035 lb. ai/gal x 1 gal/128 oz = 0.000273 lb. ai/oz

Lastly calc the amount of Bayer product required to achieve the concentration range of ai from the UT paper:
0.00204 lb. ai/M x 1 oz/0.000273 lb. ai/oz Bayer product = 7.47 oz Bayer product/M
0.00286 lb. ai/M x 1 oz/0.000273 lb. ai/oz Bayer product = 10.48 oz Bayer product/M

So you need to apply 7.5 - 10.5 oz of Bayer Bermudagrass Control for Lawns per 1000 sq.ft of lawn in order to achieve the rate UT recommends. I had some previous bottles of this stuff so I opened them and used a backpack spray to apply this amount along with triclopyr.
 
DocV said:
@ergray3 if you have TTTF, it is cheaper to buy fluazifop than Acclaim Extra. I use fluazifop/triclopyr at the GDD10C date.
Good to know, I have TTTF in the front and new KBG in the back. There are currently a few Bermuda plants in the back but I've just been hand pulling them. I'll see how it looks once the winter comes and I'll have to make a decision based on the back yard. I'm hoping I can get the KBG to thicken and outcompete before next summer.
 
DocV said:
Volatility and wind drift are two different things. You can get drift of the spray from wind but volatile chemicals like triclopyr ester form a vapor at lower temperatures which can disburse either as a vapor and by the wind. At higher temps like 80F+ triclopyr ester forms a vapor just from the increased temp. Long story short with triclopyr ester you need to worry about both wind and temp.
Thank you @DocV for your patient feedback.

Looks like my plans are delayed this weekend due to rain.

Which pushed everything back on overseeding.

Going to be tight this year.
 
DocV said:
@YardWork314 If you are going to use fluazifop, use it for your first or second app in combination with triclopyr. This way you can use Pylex for the last app and seed immediately.
Just an update. This plan of using pylex on the 1st application, ornamec and triclopyr on 2nd, and pylex as the 3rd seems to be working well so far. I have completed the first two applications in the sequence, and the Bermuda is mostly brown while the fescue is still looking strong. I will wait 2-3 weeks before the final pylex application. Thanks for the information you provided.
 
Welp, this summer completely got away from me and I just realized I want to overseed either next weekend or the following weekend. Doing the backyard this weekend, but no Bermuda issues there. Way too late for the full pylex/triclopyr schedule and didn't want to risk triclopyr affecting the overseed so I sprayed pylex this afternoon. Hopefully it's better than nothing.
 
edixon88 said:
Welp, this summer completely got away from me and I just realized I want to overseed either next weekend or the following weekend. Doing the backyard this weekend, but no Bermuda issues there. Way too late for the full pylex/triclopyr schedule and didn't want to risk triclopyr affecting the overseed so I sprayed pylex this afternoon. Hopefully it's better than nothing.
That pylex app gave me some serious bleaching

 
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