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aug0211's KBG Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

44888 Views 310 Replies 40 Participants Last post by  aug0211, 
A
Hi Everyone,

I had this thread over at another forum originally, but as I've migrated over here, I figure I'll post it up again :)

I decided to take on my first reno project this year at my home in Ohio. It's a roughly 7.5k sq. ft. residential lawn that was previously a contractor mix. I bought the home last fall and decided to go all in this fall.

After research, I selected KBG to best fit my needs - light foot traffic, irrigation available (had it installed this summer), commitment to maintenance, and spreading ability. From there, I selected a bewitched monostand due to the shade tolerance, performance in my region, and my strong desire to a uniform lawn. I know it's a risk, so I did not go in blind in that sense.

1. MOW - I started my prep in late July with getting the lawn to a manageable height - looking back, I went too low (should have scalped after my glypho was applied. Rookie mistake. I did replace my blades after this to make sure I had fresh ones before my first cut on the new lawn.

2. GLYPHO - I followed up with Glypho round 1 immediate after my first scalp, and got a very good kill. I also way over applied the glypho :) More on that later.

3. ROCKS - From there, I was hand-picking rocks anywhere I saw them (per ken-n-nancy's advice). Every day, I picked up rocks - filling up a few 5 gallon buckets in the end.

4. FALLOW - I also started fallowing at this point - 4x/day watering.

5. GLYPHO ROUND 2 - Next up, the second spray - nothing to exciting here. Again, I way over applied the glypho.

6. MOW AGAIN - Final mow, to make sure I had everything taken down

7. DETHATCH - I had concerns that my mower was not scalping low enough to give good soil contact, so I rented a dethatched and ran it over the entire space. I was very nervous about disturbing the weed seeds, but was more nervous about not having soil contact - so I went for it.

8. FALLOW - Next up, I fallowed again, with plans to spot spray glypho if needed, anywhere weeds came up after the dethatching. I did not end up seeing any, so there was no more glypho applied.

9. TOO MUCH GLYPHO? NOPE! - At this point, I made a comment on my thread on how much glypho I had used, and got a lot of concerned remarks about using too much and doing damage - it turned out to be no concern. Scott's confirmed there was no issue and I did not have germination issues.

10. SEED DOWN - August 25, 2017 - Next up, seed down at 2.5 lbs/, mixed with the SoilMoist seed coat

11. FERTILIZER - Scott's Starter with Mesotrione

12. ROLL - Rolled seed lightly into soil

13. PEAT - Top dressed with peat moss - underestimated how much work that would be!

14. WATER - Water like crazy (4x/day)

15. RE-SEED - At roughly 30 days, I used a metal leaf rake to rake bare spots (remember, I was worried about my grass not being scalped low enough - and re-seeded those bare spots (no peat moss).
​

I had germination starting at 7 days. I'll put together some photos to follow in the next post showing the progress along the way.

What I'd do differently next time:
1. TENACITY - I wish I had gone the route of spraying tenacity opposed to the Scott's starter + mesotrione

2. DISTURB SOIL, EARLY - I would have disturbed the heck out of my soil with dethatching, power raking, and aeration 6 weeks before seed down - then leveled and fallowed non stop until my seed down date.

3. LEVEL - Mentioned above - more time spent leveling/filling in low spots - a dead lawn is the time to do this. I did a couple spots, but not everything

4. IMPROVE IRRIGATION - Be more of a stickler on the irrigation company :) I had somewhat uneven coverage with a couple dry spots that caused me problems. I also wish I had spent more time getting to know my irrigation system and making sure I had the perfect watering schedule​
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10
I really wish I had taken more photos along the way. I'm generally a pretty regimented/organized person, so it's unlike me to not have taken photos at regular intervals. The photos I do have are actually quite terrible, too :-( I'll try to do better going forward.

Here's what I have:

Prep - Scalping/post kill




Day 50 - Right before a mow
Comparing my bright/light green color to neighbor's darker color (mature contractor's mix - side yard) and an under maintained HOA contractor's mix (back)




Day 57 - Last night, bad angle and at night
This looks better than it really is!





More to come - including the front and side yards (side yards are struggling a bit from over watering and lack of sun, I think).
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jimmy
Great to have you here! I was reading your thread on the other site and was wondering where you were at. You weren't treated well over there by some members, so I'm glad you found TLF.

I know you over-applied the glyphosate, but my understanding is that glyphosate degrades so quickly once sprayed, that it shouldn't be a problem. Some people even apply it the night before or same day as seeding. Even a higher rate should still degrade the same speed. I'm glad it wasn't an issue for you.

What issues did you have the with Scott's w/mesotrione? Was is because you disturbed the soil so late in the process? I used it and had only a bit of crabgrass, but it was manageable enough to pick by hand, though I didn't disturb the soil at all. Honestly, with all the work I did on the seed down day, I was glad to not have to pull out my backpack sprayer and do another app.

Looking forward to your photos!
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jimmy said:
Great to have you here! I was reading your thread on the other site and was wondering where you were at. You weren't treated well over there by some members, so I'm glad you found TLF.

I know you over-applied the glyphosate, but my understanding is that glyphosate degrades so quickly once sprayed, that it shouldn't be a problem. Some people even apply it the night before or same day as seeding. Even a higher rate should still degrade the same speed. I'm glad it wasn't an issue for you.

What issues did you have the with Scott's w/mesotrione? Was is because you disturbed the soil so late in the process? I used it and had only a bit of crabgrass, but it was manageable enough to pick by hand, though I didn't disturb the soil at all. Honestly, with all the work I did on the seed down day, I was glad to not have to pull out my backpack sprayer and do another app.

Looking forward to your photos!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the warm welcome! I did definitely over apply the glypho, and got lucky that the only impact was to my own time and wallet :)

I shouldn't say I had issues with the Scott's + meotrione; that wouldn't be fair. I opted for that route because I learned that I have a lot of practice to do on the spraying front (the whole glypho thing...). With how much I disturbed the soil, I should have foreseen more weeds popping up and opted for spraying, which I understand to be a better post emergent than the granules (due to leaf contact).

My disturbing the soil did seem to bring out a fair amount of weed seed - I'm still not completely sure what all I have, though g-man has been helpful in IDing some in the weed ID thread (so far, it looks like Annual Rye and Orchard Grass).

I spent about 2 hours hand picking weeds last week before mowing. I got a lot of what I think is Orchard grass, though I'm sure more will crop up that I missed. I wish I had more experience with this, as I suspect I actually have only a little bewitched and quite a bit of other stuff coming in.

I really wish I had been better about photos - I thought I had loads more, but alas, everything I have is above.

I'll get better photos sometime this week from above for better angles - I have some definite bare spots and am going to look for advice on whether to put down pre-m over the entire lawn going in to next season and hope for good spreading next spring, or skip pre-m on the bare spots and go for a spring seeding.
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Pete1313
jimmy said:
I know you over-applied the glyphosate, but my understanding is that glyphosate degrades so quickly once sprayed, that it shouldn't be a problem. Some people even apply it the night before or same day as seeding. Even a higher rate should still degrade the same speed. I'm glad it wasn't an issue for you.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Should be no problem. I sprayed my last round the night before with no issues.

Subscribed! Looking forward to some more pictures and updates!
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SNOWBOB11
Bewitched is awesome isn't it. Looks good, nice job!
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A
17
Here we are, at day 65 - not the best photos, raw/unedited from my iPhone. I'm not great at photos so if I should be doing something different when taking these, let me know :)











I have some yellowing in the front that has me a bit concerned. I started a fungus treatment plan 3 weeks ago because I was concerned about some spots popping up in the front.

After a lot of thought, I gave two spoon feedings of nitrogen the last two weeks (0.5 lbs/k) to help grow through the fungus. I was nervous about two things: nitrogen so early on such a young lawn, and feeding N so late in the season.

•3 weeks ago, fungus treatment #1 at bag rate for "curative" use
•2 weeks ago, nitrogen spoon feeding #1 at 0.5 lbs/k
•1 weeks ago, nitrogen spoon feeding #2 at 0.5 lbs/k
•Today, fungus treatment #2 at bag rate for "preventative" use (per instructions)

I believe the yellowing that I have is from nitrogen burn - I suspect that I either did not water in enough, or the lawn just couldn't take the N yet. There's a chance it's fungus, too - I can't tell.

I was maintaining at a lower cut, but decided to let the lawn grow a couple extra days with the yellowing to avoid further stress (assuming it is N burn).

I have some of what I can tell is KBG (nice thin blades) but, the vast majority of my turf is thicker bladed mystery grass for me. Any ideas from the closeup photos? G-man had indicated Orchard Grass (I hand pulled a ton) as well as Annual Rye.

Last note - two "homemade" failures for lawn rollers so far. One was a PVC pipe with sand, but I quickly shut that down as it was a nightmare any time I turned/backed up (need a better fastening system). Next up was a rubber floor mat to add some weight. It doesn't do much of anything beyond the factory setup.
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Hi All,

Including some additional photos in hope of more conclusive information on whether I have rust/some fungal issue OR if this is nitrogen burn.

In my previous post, I laid out some details on application of N (via Urea), in an attempt to grow through fungus (alongside/supplementing a fungal treatment).

Here are some additional photos I snapped today - I honestly and just not sure if it's N burn or fungus spreading.

Any ideas?









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Sinclair
That's rust.

N burn would fry all the grass in one place. What we see in your photo are dying blades next to perfectly healthy blades.
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Sinclair said:
That's rust.

N burn would fry all the grass in one place. What we see in your photo are dying blades next to perfectly healthy blades.
Click to expand...
Dang! Thank you for the help!

Ok - so... next steps?

I have 2 bags of Scott's fungus control (URL below).

In my first application (4 weeks ago), I applied 3 bags at the "curative rate" - which covered my 7.5k perfectly.

Then, last application (last week), I applied at the "prevantivite rate" (per bag instructions), but this was only 1 bag - the math did not add up (spreader settings vs lbs/ft). I stuck with the more conservative measurement (which was spreader settings - so 1 bag which is supposed to cover 5k covered 7.5k).

Should I drop more tomorrow? Thoughts on how much? Or - is a different product better? I don't want to over-do it and create more issues, but I do not see this improving.

I'll spray down the mower tomorrow before mowing... and will plan to contribute dropping my HOC. Should I give a shot of N, as well?

URL to the product I currently have (and have been putting down):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F6XHIG/ref=asc_df_B000F6XHIG5247535/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000F6XHIG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193142362025&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2285002750196086127&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014885&hvtargid=pla-308678422731
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Sinclair
University of Minnesota extension recommends doing essentially nothing. We are too late in the season now.

http://blog-yard-garden-news.extension.umn.edu/2010/10/rust-diseases-of-lawn-grasses-very.html?m=1
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A
Thanks, Sinclair.

Looks like I selected the wrong product - the Bayer product may have been better, based on the labels (Scotts does not list rust).

The link you posted makes it sound like the worst case with applying fungicide now is wasted money in the event that it's too late for the fungicide to do anything? If that's the case, I'd spent the ~$50 if appropriate to try to help the little bit of new stuff coming in/roots underneath.

If there's actual harm to be done, I will have to get by with just kicking myself through the winter :)

Last question - do I still go with a pre-m, or do I plan on reseeding next spring? :-(
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Sinclair
Based on your photos, it doesn't look that bad, and don't forget that KBG has rhizomes underground that are now going dormant, but will emerge next spring.

If that was my lawn I would do pre-m now and not worry too much over the winter. :)
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Sinclair
Save your fungus control product for if you have a problem in the spring.
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Sinclair said:
Save your fungus control product for if you have a problem in the spring.
Click to expand...
Hmmm.... save it b/c I risk doing more damage if I put something down? Or save it to save the $?

Honestly, I'm anxious enough that I'd feel better buying the Bayer and putting it down, even if it is likely to not help - unless there's risk of it doing damage.

Thanks again for the help, Sinclair!
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Sinclair
It won't hurt anything other than your wallet. ;)
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Sinclair said:
It won't hurt anything other than your wallet. ;)
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Ok, cool, I'm willing to spend the ~$50 or so to give it a shot. No concerns with applying Bayer at bag rate, given that I applied Scotts at curative rate 4 weeks ago and then preventative rate 1 week ago?
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Sinclair
You'll have to look at the active ingredient in each and do some googling to see if there are any adverse effects of over application.

Fungicide AIs typically end in "ole".

I'd spend the $50 on a bottle of scotch, and have a drink every time I worry about the rust.
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g-man
The best way to confirm rust is to grab a white paper towel and rub a couple of leaves. It should leave a rust color residue.
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g-man said:
The best way to confirm rust is to grab a white paper towel and rub a couple of leaves. It should leave a rust color residue.
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/creeps out into the lawn in the dark.../
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